Re: The annual ‘how will 2022/23 SL finish the regular seaso : Wed Dec 14, 2022 1:35 pm  

Gazwire wrote:

Agree with this, but a realistic timescale has to be factored in. You expect us to win the first 4 including Leeds first game, otherwise we're not on track, as you've just posted. Are you expecting all our newcomers to gel first game, because that's what'll be required if we are planning to turnover an already well drilled, well financed side who performed markedly better than us and most other sides last season. I'm hoping we will and wouldn't be surprised if we did as it'll be the first game of the season for Leeds as well and they may be a bit rusty. We'll be rusty and it'll be the first proper game many of our players will have played together in, so I reckon Leeds will go in as firm favourites.

We have to remember too that we've been chucking more money than anyone else for nearly 20 years and still haven't won it - that tells me we've needed a culture change/reset for a long time now, since Smith came in when we did get close. The cost of an upheaval such as this is that it'll take time for things to fully assimilate.

Come the end of the season there will be no excuses, but let's judge things over time as the season progresses and not make hasty/rash decisions. Aside from anything else, how pointless would it be to sack the coach, early doors, who has rebuilt the squad to suit his style of play. Last season was poor, but it was going to be in all probability given the number of changes, and players brassed off with having to attend training sessions fully.

Let's keep our fingers crossed.

Yes fingers crossed. I am not expecting anything. It's pointless with Warrington. They always surprise.

But I am frustrated at the excuse culture we build in. Other teams have new players, other teams have new coaches, all teams have a pre-season and friendly games.

For example. We have made 6 new signings for 2023 (including Russell).

Castleford have made 6, Catalan have made 6, Hudds have made 9, Hull FC have made 5, Hull KR 7, Leeds 8, Leigh 12, Salford 6, Saints 2, Wakefield 3, Wigan 2.

Powell needs to be showing he has got what it takes sooner rather than later. I am interested in what time frame you would base your decision on?

Re: The annual ‘how will 2022/23 SL finish the regular seaso : Wed Dec 14, 2022 2:27 pm  

Wires71 wrote:

Gazwire wrote:

Agree with this, but a realistic timescale has to be factored in. You expect us to win the first 4 including Leeds first game, otherwise we're not on track, as you've just posted. Are you expecting all our newcomers to gel first game, because that's what'll be required if we are planning to turnover an already well drilled, well financed side who performed markedly better than us and most other sides last season. I'm hoping we will and wouldn't be surprised if we did as it'll be the first game of the season for Leeds as well and they may be a bit rusty. We'll be rusty and it'll be the first proper game many of our players will have played together in, so I reckon Leeds will go in as firm favourites.

We have to remember too that we've been chucking more money than anyone else for nearly 20 years and still haven't won it - that tells me we've needed a culture change/reset for a long time now, since Smith came in when we did get close. The cost of an upheaval such as this is that it'll take time for things to fully assimilate.

Come the end of the season there will be no excuses, but let's judge things over time as the season progresses and not make hasty/rash decisions. Aside from anything else, how pointless would it be to sack the coach, early doors, who has rebuilt the squad to suit his style of play. Last season was poor, but it was going to be in all probability given the number of changes, and players brassed off with having to attend training sessions fully.

Let's keep our fingers crossed.

Yes fingers crossed. I am not expecting anything. It's pointless with Warrington. They always surprise.

But I am frustrated at the excuse culture we build in. Other teams have new players, other teams have new coaches, all teams have a pre-season and friendly games.

For example. We have made 6 new signings for 2023 (including Russell).

Castleford have made 6, Catalan have made 6, Hudds have made 9, Hull FC have made 5, Hull KR 7, Leeds 8, Leigh 12, Salford 6, Saints 2, Wakefield 3, Wigan 2.

Powell needs to be showing he has got what it takes sooner rather than later. I am interested in what time frame you would base your decision on?

I think there must be a sign up in the Warrington dressing room ,a very old sign ,that says "It isn't the winning it's the taking part " . The club seems to have a stock in trade of phrases to wheel out at the start of every season to excuse the relevant season's shortcomings. Perhaps a positive mental attitude would be a start & a realisation that most teams start the season with changes to overcome. Just deal with it .

Re: The annual ‘how will 2022/23 SL finish the regular seaso : Wed Dec 14, 2022 3:11 pm  

ninearches wrote:

I think there must be a sign up in the Warrington dressing room ,a very old sign ,that says "It isn't the winning it's the taking part " . The club seems to have a stock in trade of phrases to wheel out at the start of every season to excuse the relevant season's shortcomings. Perhaps a positive mental attitude would be a start & a realisation that most teams start the season with changes to overcome. Just deal with it .

Exactly. And who can blame the club when this attitude is so prevalent in the fan base?

Since the glory days in the 50's until 2004 Warrington had no reasonable expectation of winning the league title as we were outgunned financially, often struggling to survive with poor facilities and crumbling infrastructure. Sure we had a few close runs but that was well against the odds.

Since 2004 there has been absolutely no excuse for not doing so. That's 18 years full of "give the coach time", "time to gel", "bad eggs", "give youth a chance", "the hub cap is a major trophy" etc etc. It's embarrassing.

Re: The annual ‘how will 2022/23 SL finish the regular seaso : Wed Dec 14, 2022 4:21 pm  

Sorry 9A and W71 but I disagree. The idea that professional sportsmen of the calibre of eg Morley and Monaghan senior to name but 2 would be content with just taking part doesn’t hold water. All sorts of factors play a part in success on the sports field and not all of them are in your hands, injuries, luck (and no I don’t agree that you make your own luck) a 50/50 call by the ref to name just a few.
As for the fans acceptance of mediocrity…who in their right minds would want their team to be mediocre? Defies belief.

Re: The annual ‘how will 2022/23 SL finish the regular seaso : Wed Dec 14, 2022 4:40 pm  

In all honesty though ,since the early days of Smith ,there has been a gradual but steadily accelerating decline in the on field success . We had some good players ,declining Aussies who looked good over here but at least they put the effort in. The last remnants of the forwards of those days ,Hill & Cooper ,have now gone & we have to be hopeful that our new set of forwards can do the biz on the field & the backs can thrive off their go forward. Another season like last will be disastrous for the club as the walk in spectators need to be attracted back to the terraces.

Re: The annual ‘how will 2022/23 SL finish the regular seaso : Wed Dec 14, 2022 4:41 pm  

Captain Hook wrote:

Sorry 9A and W71 but I disagree. The idea that professional sportsmen of the calibre of eg Morley and Monaghan senior to name but 2 would be content with just taking part doesn’t hold water. All sorts of factors play a part in success on the sports field and not all of them are in your hands, injuries, luck (and no I don’t agree that you make your own luck) a 50/50 call by the ref to name just a few.
As for the fans acceptance of mediocrity…who in their right minds would want their team to be mediocre? Defies belief.

Fair enough. We all have our opinions. In all interest how would you explain 18 years of Warrington failing to win a league title (stated aim of the club) when they have an equal salary cap with those teams that have won multiple titles during the same period?

My explanation would be we only had the team and coach combination to do it for 2/3 of those years and there was a bit of bad luck in one GF. Rest of the time we have been miles off.

In my opinion making excuses for failure is endemic at our club.

Re: The annual ‘how will 2022/23 SL finish the regular seaso : Wed Dec 14, 2022 4:42 pm  

ninearches wrote:

In all honesty though ,since the early days of Smith ,there has been a gradual but steadily accelerating decline in the on field success . We had some good players ,declining Aussies who looked good over here but at least they put the effort in. The last remnants of the forwards of those days ,Hill & Cooper ,have now gone & we have to be hopeful that our new set of forwards can do the biz on the field & the backs can thrive off their go forward. Another season like last will be disastrous for the club as the walk in spectators need to be attracted back to the terraces.

Yes I have just made that point (crossed with yours). We have only had the right team and coach to win a title in 2/3 years of the last 18. I would say 2011/12/13.

Basically the Venn diagram years of Tony Smith / Briers / Great Pack

Re: The annual ‘how will 2022/23 SL finish the regular seaso : Wed Dec 14, 2022 4:48 pm  

After placing Saints and Wigan as 1 and 2 (boring, but predictable) its difficult to answer. Last year, I was disappointed that we did not make the playoffs given the squad we started the season with. This year, I need convincing that Powell is part of the solution, rather than part of the problem. We cannot have another revolving door of a season. In 2023 we need one of continuity, that at least builds something that is going in the right direction. Trying to anticipate where we'll finish in the table, I'd guess at somewhere between 7th and 4th, and would not be disgruntled if we were better over the second half of the season than the first. Last season we won the first three games, but our performances were not good enough, which told as the season panned out. If we can get the correct consistent level of performance, especially in defence, then results should start to look after themselves.

Re: The annual ‘how will 2022/23 SL finish the regular seaso : Wed Dec 14, 2022 5:14 pm  

I think ,which ever way we try & justify what happened last season ,whether players or management , 11th place really was a knee in the nuts of the paying fan . It really was taking the mick & will take some erasing from the memory. Effort from the the first to the last minute of games needs to be the order of the day ,just like all successful teams are capable of doing.

Re: The annual ‘how will 2022/23 SL finish the regular seaso : Wed Dec 14, 2022 5:18 pm  

ninearches wrote:

I think ,which ever way we try & justify what happened last season ,whether players or management , 11th place really was a knee in the nuts of the paying fan . It really was taking the mick & will take some erasing from the memory. Effort from the the first to the last minute of games needs to be the order of the day ,just like all successful teams are capable of doing.

KP mentions they have held a "review" of the season. I wish the club would share the key findings and recommendations.