Re: Mike Cooper : Wed Aug 31, 2022 12:43 pm  

Id rather Saints do 4 than Wigan win. Salford looking the most dangerous at the minute though.

Re: Mike Cooper : Wed Aug 31, 2022 12:48 pm  

Gazwire wrote:

Every coach, even the greatest coaches, at some point in their careers haven't won anything of note. Club boards will have identified potential in a coach and given them the gig. We're all hoping this is the club where he'll have the resources to win the big one, where at Castleford, he over-achieved.

Cooper is nearing the end of his career where he's spent most of his time at Warrington, probably the highest spending club, yet hasn't won the big one along with many other 'renowned' players. So I think Powell has every right to justify making changes given that we've fallen short due to, in part, complacency.

Cooper has always been a top performer for us and at the start of the season, I'd guess, he'd hold more influence over the other players than anyone else, given his Warrington roots and his pedigree. Rather than make it difficult for the new coach and undermine him with regards to the proposed changes, he should have gotten on board out of respect to the club and its fans. Cooper is a top player but he isn't coach. What right has he to question the credentials and coaching methods of Powell.

The other major issue is that; which coach could we have potentially recruited with Grand Final winning experience - Brian Noble, Brian Mcdermot, Iain Millward? The only other possibility was Shaun Wayne who stated on Sky Sports at the beginning of the season that 'its a tough job Warrington'. I wonder why that is? Did he foresee the same problems Powell is encountering now? We're the biggest spenders and have been for years, yet Shaun Wayne said this. I don't think he would gave come anyway.

Who else would have been a realistic appointment given that the fans wanted 'entertaining' rugby with a coach who has a track record of improving teams and individual players? if the club were to sack him now, who would we bring in?

If you’re going to say something like that (if it is true) then you need to be able to back it up, otherwise it’s misplaced arrogance. It’s antagonist without having a point to make. I’m not asking for kid gloves, but if you’re going to say something stupid, back it up.

On the point of reasonable alternatives, at the time of appointing Powell the coaches either available or in the final year of their contract included: Wane, McDermott, Bellamy, Bennett and Flanagan. Assistants in “good systems” included Fitzgibon, King, Wellens. So if you want someone to come in and say “you’ve not done it, and I’m here to show you how” literally ANY of those are better placed. If you want someone to improve players and get them to win it (as we were led to believe) then Powell is fine as an appointment, but he isn’t doing that job, Bullock aside individuals have gone backwards or have been replaced.

That is my point on transparency with the fans. The club have let Powell down, we should have been told that the club has been poorly governed and that we need to brace ourselves for a rocky start as a significant overhaul is absolutely necessary.

Re: Mike Cooper : Wed Aug 31, 2022 12:54 pm  

ratticusfinch wrote:

Id rather Saints do 4 than Wigan win. Salford looking the most dangerous at the minute though.

Yes, maybe Akauola will get a winners ring.

[Fantastic Mr Catpiss]

Re: Mike Cooper : Wed Aug 31, 2022 12:57 pm  

Barbed Wire wrote:

If you’re going to say something like that (if it is true) then you need to be able to back it up, otherwise it’s misplaced arrogance. It’s antagonist without having a point to make. I’m not asking for kid gloves, but if you’re going to say something stupid, back it up.

On the point of reasonable alternatives, at the time of appointing Powell the coaches either available or in the final year of their contract included: Wane, McDermott, Bellamy, Bennett and Flanagan. Assistants in “good systems” included Fitzgibon, King, Wellens. So if you want someone to come in and say “you’ve not done it, and I’m here to show you how” literally ANY of those are better placed. If you want someone to improve players and get them to win it (as we were led to believe) then Powell is fine as an appointment, but he isn’t doing that job, Bullock aside individuals have gone backwards or have been replaced.

That is my point on transparency with the fans. The club have let Powell down, we should have been told that the club has been poorly governed and that we need to brace ourselves for a rocky start as a significant overhaul is absolutely necessary.

so you think the club should have announced in the press at the start of the year, "these players are doggo, and we're spending this year to find out who's willing to be less doggo" that would have gone down reyt with them.

Re: Mike Cooper : Wed Aug 31, 2022 12:57 pm  

As long as you avoid the post match video from the 2 redvee TV muppets, then saints winning 4 is MUCH preferable than seeing Cooper and Briers parading round old Trafford with the SL trophy wearing cherry and white.

Re: Mike Cooper : Wed Aug 31, 2022 1:06 pm  

Fantastic Mr Catpiss wrote:

so you think the club should have announced in the press at the start of the year, "these players are doggo, and we're spending this year to find out who's willing to be less doggo" that would have gone down reyt with them.

That’s not what I said, and is not accurate. The players are not “doggo”, but if you have can justify finishing 11th because of the poor state that the club was in, then the leadership should own that failure.

The message, in my opinion (if the club was in such a poor state) would be that the club requires immediate intervention in order to address some of the failures that have seen the club miss out on winning the big one despite the resources expended, this could take time in order to identify the issues and to remedy them, although we are confident that we have found the right people to lead that rebuild. The actual announcement from memory saw Middleton say that he thought Powell was the right man to improve players at the club.

[Fantastic Mr Catpiss]

Re: Mike Cooper : Wed Aug 31, 2022 1:28 pm  

Barbed Wire wrote:

That’s not what I said, and is not accurate. The players are not “doggo”, but if you have can justify finishing 11th because of the poor state that the club was in, then the leadership should own that failure.

The message, in my opinion (if the club was in such a poor state) would be that the club requires immediate intervention in order to address some of the failures that have seen the club miss out on winning the big one despite the resources expended, this could take time in order to identify the issues and to remedy them, although we are confident that we have found the right people to lead that rebuild. The actual announcement from memory saw Middleton say that he thought Powell was the right man to improve players at the club.

you're still calling the players poop, potato potato tomato tomato.

Re: Mike Cooper : Wed Aug 31, 2022 2:30 pm  

just_browny wrote:

What on earth am I reading on a Warrington forum?

Well, i would prefer it to be with us but there is no chance of that before he retires.

Re: Mike Cooper : Wed Aug 31, 2022 2:56 pm  

“We know we need to improve but we still believe we can challenge for the Super League title at the business end of the season.” Karl Fitzpatrick April 2022 https://www.leeds-live.co.uk/sport/rugb ... k-23641835

“We know we need to improve but we still believe we can challenge for the Super League title at the business end of the season.” Karl Fitzpatrick April 2022 https://www.leeds-live.co.uk/sport/rugb ... k-23641835

Re: Mike Cooper : Wed Aug 31, 2022 2:59 pm  

Barbed Wire wrote:

If you’re going to say something like that (if it is true) then you need to be able to back it up, otherwise it’s misplaced arrogance. It’s antagonist without having a point to make. I’m not asking for kid gloves, but if you’re going to say something stupid, back it up.

On the point of reasonable alternatives, at the time of appointing Powell the coaches either available or in the final year of their contract included: Wane, McDermott, Bellamy, Bennett and Flanagan. Assistants in “good systems” included Fitzgibon, King, Wellens. So if you want someone to come in and say “you’ve not done it, and I’m here to show you how” literally ANY of those are better placed. If you want someone to improve players and get them to win it (as we were led to believe) then Powell is fine as an appointment, but he isn’t doing that job, Bullock aside individuals have gone backwards or have been replaced.

That is my point on transparency with the fans. The club have let Powell down, we should have been told that the club has been poorly governed and that we need to brace ourselves for a rocky start as a significant overhaul is absolutely necessary.

Firstly, you need to settle yourself down and debate the point rather than get personal. Without wishing to accuse you of likewise saying something stupid, my post was based on an earlier post in the thread and my post was partly a progression on this:

Snaggletooth wrote:

Apparently (in the early days of DP's tenure) when having discussions with the team and MC was having difficulty getting on board with DP's methods, MC was asked by DP if he had won a Grand Final, MC said no and DP said I'm here to change that.

DP has given MC the best chance by moving him to Wigan.

...and other information I've heard from some friends.

The club may have approached these coaches you mentioned, but may have been unsuccessful. A question: have any successful NRL coaches switched to Superleague. I can't think of any - they leave to join another NRL club. That leaves Wayne who probably wouldn't have come. Would you really want Mcdermot? And the other assistant coaches are big gambles.

Just debate the point and let people decide for themselves if someone is stupid or arrogant etc.