[Mild Rover]

Re: Vaccine Guinea Pig : Thu Mar 25, 2021 6:52 pm  

Zoo Zoo Boom wrote:

Are we getting good value for money in our state education system - is the current system delivering the best outcomes and I don't mean loads of GCSEs. Perhaps before spending huge amounts of extra cash we develop a system that delivers maximum value and then start to re-invest - just a thought?

You do fall back on nirvana fallacies a lot. Like for healthcare, the ‘we can never spend enough, so we shouldn’t spend more’ argument.

Relying on stereotypes of conservatives, would you take the same attitude with the military or roads? Like, ‘we can never be completely safe from attack, so why even bother with an army, navy and Air Force.’?

Fair enough, I assume you’re not saying do away with schools and hospitals - so that is an exaggeration, I admit.

Re: Vaccine Guinea Pig : Thu Mar 25, 2021 7:02 pm  

Zoo Zoo Boom wrote:

The 1.9m is on the HM Gov site - go check and come back when you can confirm your 20m jabs?

Or you could put the link up you are referring to

Re: Vaccine Guinea Pig : Sat Mar 27, 2021 7:35 am  

Mild Rover wrote:

You do fall back on nirvana fallacies a lot. Like for healthcare, the ‘we can never spend enough, so we shouldn’t spend more’ argument.

Relying on stereotypes of conservatives, would you take the same attitude with the military or roads? Like, ‘we can never be completely safe from attack, so why even bother with an army, navy and Air Force.’?

Fair enough, I assume you’re not saying do away with schools and hospitals - so that is an exaggeration, I admit.

Not at all what I saying is our current education system doesn't deliver the outcomes it should when compared to other countries e.g Finland/South Korea. So rather than throw even more money into a failing system as Ghost would do why don't we fix the system by taking the best of other education idea adapt them to suit our culture first and them increase the spending - these are not difficult concepts for most of us to think through.

Just throwing good money after bad is not is a great solution - more teachers teaching the same way - is that as good as it gets?

Re: Vaccine Guinea Pig : Sat Mar 27, 2021 7:36 am  

Superblue wrote:

Or you could put the link up you are referring to

You could also put your 20m flue jabs link up also?

Re: Vaccine Guinea Pig : Sat Mar 27, 2021 8:04 am  

Zoo Zoo Boom wrote:

You could also put your 20m flue jabs link up also?

Considering that all over 55's are offered the flu jab, plus those with particular medical needs, the 1.9 million figure is very ,very low.
I cant find a figure but, the uptake is supposed to be 2/3 of those eligible, somewhat more than the number you have given.
Also, there were 750,000 given to NHS employees. OK some of these will fit into the over 55 category but, I think your figure is wrong.

[Mild Rover]

Re: Vaccine Guinea Pig : Sat Mar 27, 2021 8:14 am  

Zoo Zoo Boom wrote:

Not at all what I saying is our current education system doesn't deliver the outcomes it should when compared to other countries e.g Finland/South Korea. So rather than throw even more money into a failing system as Ghost would do why don't we fix the system by taking the best of other education idea adapt them to suit our culture first and them increase the spending - these are not difficult concepts for most of us to think through.

Just throwing good money after bad is not is a great solution - more teachers teaching the same way - is that as good as it gets?

It is a bit of a leap from not best to failing. Education is a bit of a political football unfortunately and reforms rarely last long enough in the UK to even allow their level of success to be assessed, before another Education Secretary comes along with a new vision.

It is entirely possible to try to optimise and invest at the same time, and those things might well be complementary. I can understand a degree of nervousness about handing over billions of £s to Gavin Williamson to spend effectively, admittedly.

[Durham Giant]

Re: Vaccine Guinea Pig : Sat Mar 27, 2021 9:21 am  

The Tories will do nothing to manage the education system better because to make the changes you need ala Scandanavia you have to fundamentally see education as about encouraging learning for the sake of learning and to develop independent thinking.

Every announcement by the Tories about education is about controlling what is taught and emphasis on exams and testing not a love of learning. Hence their love affair with targets and ofsted.


Simple starter on education would be No Formal Learning until children are 7 years old. The first 3 years is all about socialising children, developing co-operation and communication and developing a love of learning.

Re: Vaccine Guinea Pig : Sun Mar 28, 2021 7:59 am  

Durham Giant wrote:

The Tories will do nothing to manage the education system better because to make the changes you need ala Scandanavia you have to fundamentally see education as about encouraging learning for the sake of learning and to develop independent thinking.

Every announcement by the Tories about education is about controlling what is taught and emphasis on exams and testing not a love of learning. Hence their love affair with targets and ofsted.


Simple starter on education would be No Formal Learning until children are 7 years old. The first 3 years is all about socialising children, developing co-operation and communication and developing a love of learning.

A good post and my view too - education is about delivering rounded students at all levels with the necessary skill set to advance at what ever level into adult life.

Re: Vaccine Guinea Pig : Sun Mar 28, 2021 8:01 am  

Mild Rover wrote:

It is a bit of a leap from not best to failing. Education is a bit of a political football unfortunately and reforms rarely last long enough in the UK to even allow their level of success to be assessed, before another Education Secretary comes along with a new vision.

It is entirely possible to try to optimise and invest at the same time, and those things might well be complementary. I can understand a degree of nervousness about handing over billions of £s to Gavin Williamson to spend effectively, admittedly.

I agree with the last paragraph provided you have a clear vision of what you are trying to achieve and a clear strategy of how you are going to get there

Re: Vaccine Guinea Pig : Sun Mar 28, 2021 8:03 am  

wrencat1873 wrote:

Considering that all over 55's are offered the flu jab, plus those with particular medical needs, the 1.9 million figure is very ,very low.
I cant find a figure but, the uptake is supposed to be 2/3 of those eligible, somewhat more than the number you have given.
Also, there were 750,000 given to NHS employees. OK some of these will fit into the over 55 category but, I think your figure is wrong.

I was wrong - the number was c10m but it still makes the latest vaccine roll out on a different scale to the annual flu jab roll out - timescales being one thing, volumes being another, the nature of the vaccine especially the Pfizer.