Re: Pre season. : Sat Dec 10, 2022 9:56 am  

Hullrealist wrote:

It was a New start when smith walked through the door. 5 weeks into preseason already showing a poor attitude.

Obviously, you can only move a player on if someone’s willing to take him and he’s willing to go. Attitude is everything on the rugby pitch. If a players attitude isn’t up to it then their cap space is wasted. Too many players refusing to accept responsibility for the club’s failures and are wanting to point the blame somewhere else

As I stated before, we have players under contract for another 12 months. The club can’t afford to pay them off and obviously these players don’t want to or can’t be moved on. Everyone knows they’re a waste of cap space but it’s a pointless exercise complaining about it. Apparently Shaull has stated he’ll see his contract out at FC then retire from playing to go back bricklaying. Now tell me how you’re going to deal with that attitude, rightly or wrongly, it’s his decision to make because of inept management.

Re: Pre season. : Sat Dec 10, 2022 1:25 pm  

Armavinit wrote:

As I stated before, we have players under contract for another 12 months. The club can’t afford to pay them off and obviously these players don’t want to or can’t be moved on. Everyone knows they’re a waste of cap space but it’s a pointless exercise complaining about it. Apparently Shaull has stated he’ll see his contract out at FC then retire from playing to go back bricklaying. Now tell me how you’re going to deal with that attitude, rightly or wrongly, it’s his decision to make because of inept management.

Easy to deal with a bad attitude, send them to the reserves or out on loan to Doncaster

Re: Pre season. : Sat Dec 10, 2022 11:08 pm  

Hullrealist wrote:

Easy to deal with a bad attitude, send them to the reserves or out on loan to Doncaster

He’ll play for the reserves quite happily on his contract payments but you still haven’t answered my question.

Re: Pre season. : Sun Dec 11, 2022 9:29 am  

From the Westwood images, still a few players not there - Evans, Savelio, Trueman, Clifford obviously, Sao and Satae. Wonder why big Chris wasn't there as he has done all of pre season so far

[Mild Rover]

Re: Pre season. : Sun Dec 11, 2022 10:36 am  

I don’t think Shaul can be accused of a bad attitude just for deciding to play out the last year of his contract in his testimonial year and then retire. There’s a decent chance you got a discount on his contract because he was due that testimonial.

Re: Pre season. : Sun Dec 11, 2022 11:00 pm  

Mild Rover wrote:

I don’t think Shaul can be accused of a bad attitude just for deciding to play out the last year of his contract in his testimonial year and then retire. There’s a decent chance you got a discount on his contract because he was due that testimonial.

He’ll get his full contract payment plus his testimonial, that’s how it works. Same with Tagg, whose also on a testimonial year.

[Mild Rover]

Re: Pre season. : Mon Dec 12, 2022 8:35 am  

Armavinit wrote:

He’ll get his full contract payment plus his testimonial, that’s how it works. Same with Tagg, whose also on a testimonial year.

Yes, but I meant an effective discount when that contract was negotiated. Like, ‘we’ll give you the security of a 3-year deal, which takes you through to your testimonial year’ is a sensible and, from what I’ve read, not untypical position. I think we know where conversations about the extent to which clubs can offer a de facto guarantee of a testimonial will lead, but it is fair to say Shaul could rely on his more than Taylor could, so it is likely less relevant for Taylor. Also, I expect it’d be a fairly marginal difference, as I don’t think modern testimonials are hugely lucrative, relative to SL wages. Speculation aside, he’s not asking for or doing anything unreasonable. Certainly less so than expecting him to go to Wakefield to free up space for a new signing in his 10-year testimonial season, imo.

[Chris71]

Re: Pre season. : Mon Dec 12, 2022 11:04 am  

Armavinit wrote:

As I stated before, we have players under contract for another 12 months. The club can’t afford to pay them off and obviously these players don’t want to or can’t be moved on. Everyone knows they’re a waste of cap space but it’s a pointless exercise complaining about it. Apparently Shaull has stated he’ll see his contract out at FC then retire from playing to go back bricklaying. Now tell me how you’re going to deal with that attitude, rightly or wrongly, it’s his decision to make because of inept management.

To be honest I'm not sure what anyone expects Shaul to do in terms of seeing out his contract which still has year left and why shouldn't he? Its the same with the ridiculous option that Houghton had in his favour to extend rather than it being a decision solely in the clubs hands. In fairness to Shaul in the article he seems to intimate that he probably didn't have the right attitude last season but he certainly wasn't alone on that one. As Tony Smith has stated all players have been given a clean slate and it would seem that poor attitudes will not be tolerated and he expects certain standards from the players.
In an ideal world the club would have moved a few players on after the end of last season but the reality is we are stuck with a number of players that have massively under performed for whatever reason so we have to make the best of it until their deals run out, which I am sure is not lost on either the club or the players.

For me whilst many of the same kind of articles come out every pre season I can honestly say this year certainly seems to have a different feel and there are subtle differences in the things being said than in previous years. Whether that is wishful thinking or hope who knows but there does seem to have been a big change in the whole ethos within the club and amongst the players so far.

Re: Pre season. : Mon Dec 12, 2022 3:39 pm  

Chris71 wrote:

To be honest I'm not sure what anyone expects Shaul to do in terms of seeing out his contract which still has year left and why shouldn't he? Its the same with the ridiculous option that Houghton had in his favour to extend rather than it being a decision solely in the clubs hands. In fairness to Shaul in the article he seems to intimate that he probably didn't have the right attitude last season but he certainly wasn't alone on that one. As Tony Smith has stated all players have been given a clean slate and it would seem that poor attitudes will not be tolerated and he expects certain standards from the players.
In an ideal world the club would have moved a few players on after the end of last season but the reality is we are stuck with a number of players that have massively under performed for whatever reason so we have to make the best of it until their deals run out, which I am sure is not lost on either the club or the players.

For me whilst many of the same kind of articles come out every pre season I can honestly say this year certainly seems to have a different feel and there are subtle differences in the things being said than in previous years. Whether that is wishful thinking or hope who knows but there does seem to have been a big change in the whole ethos within the club and amongst the players so far.

Wishful thinking and hope Chris.
We are still too small and lightweight in the forwards,no strike at centre and no real pace on the wing to make inroads into the top 6.
At least under Tony Smith we should see a more exciting style of play
With a major clearout in 2024 and lessons learnt in procurement and contracts we should see Hull FC back at the top where we should be

[Chris71]

Re: Pre season. : Mon Dec 12, 2022 3:59 pm  

bonaire wrote:

Wishful thinking and hope Chris.
We are still too small and lightweight in the forwards,no strike at centre and no real pace on the wing to make inroads into the top 6.
At least under Tony Smith we should see a more exciting style of play
With a major clearout in 2024 and lessons learnt in procurement and contracts we should see Hull FC back at the top where we should be

Don't get me wrong I think we are still a few players short to be a genuine candidate to challenge for silverware next year hence my comment re in an ideal world. As you say with the opportunity for a major overhaul of the squad in 2024 due to contracts ending etc it is more important to get the recruitment right and plan accordingly for 2024 onwards. Hopefully the club has learnt from its mistakes in terms of the deals given out so we are not left in the same scenario again.

I still feel the changes made already with the new coaching set up, the improvements in replacements for Reynolds & Gale and the pace that Hoy brings as a FB instead of Jake will see us improve on previous seasons performances. With the changes in regards to accountability and levels of performance expected by Smith and new attitude within the group then it can only be a positive moving forward and again lay foundations for 2024 onwards and play a more entertaining and attractive style.

I think the club has done well to make the playing roster changes it has this off season considering the constraints in terms of cap space and players existing contracts.