Re: 4 more years…. : Sat Jan 13, 2024 12:42 am  

NickyKiss wrote:

True and I’d also say that through absolutely no fault of Lenagan we let the 2014 and 2015 Grand Finals slip through our fingers, when we should’ve won both and you could say much the same about 2020. In 2012 it was unfathomable that we didn’t get a trophy on the board also (aside from the LLS). We won 13 trophies under his ownership and I think he’ll be slightly disappointed that it wasn’t around the 16/17 mark.

To say Saints and Leeds had much more success than us in that time is clearly wrong. It feels like we probably shouid be a couple of trophies clear of the pair of them in that time but that was down to the players/coaches on those nights. What Lenagan has done is right us in a fantastic position to make sure that in this next 10-15 years we are more successful than any other team.

You replied earlier and eerily made some of the points I would have made
In this reply your thinking is exactly the same as mine again mentioning the GF's we missed out on through other issues, the 2012 season and missing out in semis in both despite playing some of the best rugby we've seen in 25 years and as you say, and it links to something I said on the Wigan way podcast before the GF this year, we've left 2/3/4 opportunities for GFs out there and not grabbed em in the past when we probably should have, and this years GF I didn't make any other prediction other than "We just need to win". More than anything to just tally up the wins and losses a bit more evenly as I think we deserved.
It must be hard for those that pinned their blame/anger/impatience/opinions IMO in no particular order Lenegan, Rads, Wane, jobs for the boys (i mentioned Peet/lockers and Tommy earlier but ill add Powell amongst others as well) to have to scramble round to justify their previous stance only to see those people and decisions bounce back and go on to prove what great people/administrators/coaches/players etc they have been and some still have a lot to give Wigan and will contribute significantly to future trophies I have no doubt.

To claim that something in the future that hasn't even happened yet i.e a dynasty, and signings for 4 years of Field for example are an example of us changing somehow in the last 2 months or so after Leneghan left, whilst all the rest of the jobs for the boys people are still here, and show no acknowledgement that the signing has all the hallmarks of how well those players signing proves they respect the culture, the club that Lenegham and others created and would possibly not have happened without their management is incredulous and ill treat those comments the way they deserve to be treated, by throwing them in the proverbial bin.

Re: 4 more years…. : Sat Jan 13, 2024 12:58 am  

2012 and 2014 are the ones that got away big time. Sam Tomkins got injured at precisely the wrong time in 2012 and we all remember how Ben Flower threw it all away.

Re: 4 more years…. : Sat Jan 13, 2024 1:19 am  

We played fantastic rugby in 2012 but fell foul of Sinfield's bombs (especially at Huddersfield in the Challenge Cup semi). 2013 was a lot more dour, and fans were complaining, but then we did the double...

Re: 4 more years…. : Sat Jan 13, 2024 1:38 am  

The idea that IL had nothing to do with the Wigan Warriors team that's about to walk out this year is not worth puking on (but the guy who implied it definitely is). IL built this team, after many years of undoing the damage done to the greatest club in the land by an owner who was more interested in a tinpot football team.

For years and years IL had to put up with that nonsense, fighting tooth and nail against the whims of a pound shop Bond villain whose entire ambition in life was to build a 'house of cards' football club that would have success for the short time he was in charge, though it didn't matter too much to him what happened after he'd gone.

People need to divest themselves of the fantasy that Dave Whelan was a friend of Wigan RL and that things were somehow better when he was in charge. If they genuinely believe that, they weren't there.

Re: 4 more years…. : Sat Jan 13, 2024 9:10 am  

Cruncher wrote:

The idea that IL had nothing to do with the Wigan Warriors team that's about to walk out this year is not worth puking on (but the guy who implied it definitely is). IL built this team, after many years of undoing the damage done to the greatest club in the land by an owner who was more interested in a tinpot football team.

For years and years IL had to put up with that nonsense, fighting tooth and nail against the whims of a pound shop Bond villain whose entire ambition in life was to build a 'house of cards' football club that would have success for the short time he was in charge, though it didn't matter too much to him what happened after he'd gone.

People need to divest themselves of the fantasy that Dave Whelan was a friend of Wigan RL and that things were somehow better when he was in charge. If they genuinely believe that, they weren't there.

Yep Dave Wheelan was no friend to us and did drain the life out this club to fuel the football. Even then deep down I only think he cared about his own vanity to get to prem and FA cup once that happened funny how the football took a big slide and he left. Mr sharpy took over who was a relation. The guy never game a sh*t what happened after he left. Yet we have his ugly mug on a statue outside the ground. Would have made more sense putting Martinez as the statue as he pulled off mission impossible beating city. Hey ho though Athletic fans are not the brightest of bunch

Re: 4 more years…. : Sat Jan 13, 2024 9:24 am  

I'm not saying I agree with everything WK is saying, but I think people are missing some of the points he's trying to make. We undoubtedly had success under IL - that's a fact & one shown by the stats. It was a decent period trophy wise.

The point was however that we should have had way more & I agree with that. You look at that 2010 team and there was a core to it that, if IL had kept it together for a decade, could have been absolutely dominant. Instead we've come out even with two other sides. I don't think that's massively controversial to say.

If I had one criticism of IL, he never seemed (imo) to want to be dominant. He was happy picking up and sharing the trophies. Of course he wanted to win everything, but not winning everything didn't seem to cut him as deep as it should.

I want to see us become absolutely ruthless under Danson. Simply the best on and off the field. I want the 80's and 90's Wigan back. I want opposition fans to already know, in Jan, that both trophies will have cherry and white tassels on them by the end of the season.

Realistic? Probably not, but it has been done before.

Re: 4 more years…. : Sat Jan 13, 2024 9:51 am  

sergeant pepper wrote:

I'm not saying I agree with everything WK is saying, but I think people are missing some of the points he's trying to make. We undoubtedly had success under IL - that's a fact & one shown by the stats. It was a decent period trophy wise.

The point was however that we should have had way more & I agree with that. You look at that 2010 team and there was a core to it that, if IL had kept it together for a decade, could have been absolutely dominant. Instead we've come out even with two other sides. I don't think that's massively controversial to say.

If I had one criticism of IL, he never seemed (imo) to want to be dominant. He was happy picking up and sharing the trophies. Of course he wanted to win everything, but not winning everything didn't seem to cut him as deep as it should.

I want to see us become absolutely ruthless under Danson. Simply the best on and off the field. I want the 80's and 90's Wigan back. I want opposition fans to already know, in Jan, that both trophies will have cherry and white tassels on them by the end of the season.

Realistic? Probably not, but it has been done before.

I don't have a problem with this, but I am concerned - and this is a strange thing for a Wigan fan to admit - that other clubs are simply not strong enough to make this the competition it needs to be.

Don't get me wrong. I want to win everything, but I don't think that will happen. I'm not one of these who cheerfully forecasts that we'll go all season without losing. I remember Bradford doing that and then losing the next three games. But because we want the game to be a great spectacle, I find it frustrating that outside of Wigan, Saints, Catalan and, maybe this year, Warrington - the other clubs still seem to be plodding along.

Leigh and Hull KR are going the right way, but I suspect that 8 times out of 10 they would lose crucial fixtures against the clubs named above. I don't know where Leeds are, but they very clearly haven't yet replaced their golden generation and I don't rate their coach at all. Hull always flatter to deceive, and Cas no longer seem able to compete in the top half of the table.

It would be great to win everything this year, but back in the mid 90s, winning most matches by 40 points was what brought our crowds down from 15,000 a week to about 7,000.

Re: 4 more years…. : Sat Jan 13, 2024 10:06 am  

Cruncher wrote:

I don't have a problem with this, but I am concerned - and this is a strange thing for a Wigan fan to admit - that other clubs are simply not strong enough to make this the competition it needs to be.

Don't get me wrong. I want to win everything, but I don't think that will happen. I'm not one of these who cheerfully forecasts that we'll go all season without losing. I remember Bradford doing that and then losing the next three games. But because we want the game to be a great spectacle, I find it frustrating that outside of Wigan, Saints, Catalan and, maybe this year, Warrington - the other clubs still seem to be plodding along.

Leigh and Hull KR are going the right way, but I suspect that 8 times out of 10 they would lose crucial fixtures against the clubs named above. I don't know where Leeds are, but they very clearly haven't yet replaced their golden generation and I don't rate their coach at all. Hull always flatter to deceive, and Cas no longer seem able to compete in the top half of the table.

It would be great to win everything this year, but back in the mid 90s, winning most matches by 40 points was what brought our crowds down from 15,000 a week to about 7,000.

I do agree. Thinking of the greater good of the sport another saintsesq run of trophies would not sell this sport. I imagine it becomes a hard sell for IMG and RFL to say to tv companies and fans this sport is exciting but we only have the same names cropping up on the trophy. I would love Wigan to go back to back as we haven’t done it and maybe do the full sweep next year. If I was a wire fan and Wigan did win everything next year I’d be thinking what’s the point things aren’t going to change. I really do think a new name on the trophy possibly Catalan is the next in line would do wonders for us. We have an exciting product 100% but it could be sold so much easier if someone like Salford or Cas had of won their GF. It’s still talked about today in the Prem when Leicester did it and it must boost other lower table clubs to push theirselves.

Re: 4 more years…. : Sat Jan 13, 2024 10:23 am  

sergeant pepper wrote:

I'm not saying I agree with everything WK is saying, but I think people are missing some of the points he's trying to make. We undoubtedly had success under IL - that's a fact & one shown by the stats. It was a decent period trophy wise.

The point was however that we should have had way more & I agree with that. You look at that 2010 team and there was a core to it that, if IL had kept it together for a decade, could have been absolutely dominant. Instead we've come out even with two other sides. I don't think that's massively controversial to say.

If I had one criticism of IL, he never seemed (imo) to want to be dominant. He was happy picking up and sharing the trophies. Of course he wanted to win everything, but not winning everything didn't seem to cut him as deep as it should.

I want to see us become absolutely ruthless under Danson. Simply the best on and off the field. I want the 80's and 90's Wigan back. I want opposition fans to already know, in Jan, that both trophies will have cherry and white tassels on them by the end of the season.

Realistic? Probably not, but it has been done before.

That 2010 team had quite a few older players in it to be fair and it felt like we pretty much did keep who we needed to keep for a period. The obvious loss was Sam Tomkins but guys like Micky Mac, Lockers and Faz were here for as long as we wanted them to be here. Joel Tomkins left but then that highlights how things move on because we then had Hansen and Farrell starting and Bateman came not long after, so you’re probably in a better position. Guys like Carmont, Deacon, Coley, Fielden, Riddell etc just hit the end of their careers, Richards wanted to go back to Oz and Gleeson got himself in bother.

I’m the first to become frustrated with constant player exits but the club has been really good at making sure there is a succession plan in place most of the time. We should’ve won more, without a doubt but that was mainly down to us bombing a few finals/semi finals. The only period of the 15 years Lenagan owned us I felt he got badly wrong was the Edwards/Lam situation. We’re Wigan and we shouldn’t wait 12 months for anybody but I’ll forgive him that one.

Re: 4 more years…. : Sat Jan 13, 2024 10:25 am  

Redvee’s comments on Field in their rumours thread is a brilliant read