Re: SL GF | St Helens (Old Trafford) : Sun Sep 25, 2022 8:28 am  

fishy3005 wrote:

It will be interesting to see what Rohan Smith can do with a full pre season.
We are just too physical (even without Walmsley). Our ball movement was crisp and runs were strong. We have missed Dodd in our attack. With him on the pitch I think we win last nights game by more points. But Leeds have injuries too to be fair.
I have reservations over a few Leeds players. Players like Smith, Leeming, Thompson, Gannon have nice moments but sometimes I question whether they are even super league standard players. I thought Austin has been great for you in this run of wins.

Anyway, see you next season folks. I hope Smith continues to improve you guys. A strong Leeds team can only be a good thing for the game.

Thompson maybe but the other three not super league standard?

What a load of rubbish.

Re: SL GF | St Helens (Old Trafford) : Sun Sep 25, 2022 8:29 am  

Magic Superbeetle wrote:

Comparing eras is always very difficult. The sports science in modern RL means that I think most teams from over 10 years ago couldn’t live with the intensity the game has now been played with. Whilst other eras have other attributes which define them, this Saints team embodies “intensity”, and is effectively era defining (for better or worse). Teams in the early 2000s may be considered more skilful, but had to do far less to strip defenders, and create opportunities. I’m very excited to get Dodd back into the team for next year, our average points score before good Friday was 12 points higher than after Dodd was injured.

It’s definitely true that consistently losing our best to Aus, as well as not even being in the conversation for any of the top NRL players coming over defines where we are as a competition, but that shouldn’t take away from Saints doing 4 in a row, or Leeds doing 3 in a row before us.

You can use the intensity argument going back 10 years from 2005 to 95 for example, but definitely not going back 10 years from now. Pound for pound, 2000-2010 was probably the best super league era for intensity and entertainment, as well as stars in the competition. We've got into a situation now where basically all the top teams are underperforming (Warrington, hull, Leeds, wigan) and there's no fix because non of them have very good spines, the quality young players for those spines aren't there, and if they are waiting in the wings will take years to come through. Scrapping around for overseas won't work. Saints have a good spine, who are a good age. They will just keep winning and winning...and winning. Attendance in next year's grand final will be lower. Tv money will eventually follow suit.

This is the worst I've ever seen it.

We'd have been better off not making the grand final, never good enough to win it, but now we've got a loss on our copybook.

Re: SL GF | St Helens (Old Trafford) : Sun Sep 25, 2022 8:32 am  

And to have those fist 17 on the pitch more, the games missed through suspension and injury have been just unbelievable. I'm sure (I hope) next year our season will get off to a much more competitive start.

Re: SL GF | St Helens (Old Trafford) : Sun Sep 25, 2022 8:35 am  

FlexWheeler wrote:

You can use the intensity argument going back 10 years from 2005 to 95 for example, but definitely not going back 10 years from now. Pound for pound, 2000-2010 was probably the best super league era for intensity and entertainment, as well as stars in the competition. We've got into a situation now where basically all the top teams are underperforming (Warrington, hull, Leeds, wigan) and there's no fix because non of them have very good spines, the quality young players for those spines aren't there, and if they are waiting in the wings will take years to come through. Scrapping around for overseas won't work. Saints have a good spine, who are a good age. They will just keep winning and winning...and winning. Attendance in next year's grand final will be lower. Tv money will eventually follow suit.

This is the worst I've ever seen it.

We'd have been better off not making the grand final, never good enough to win it, but now we've got a loss on our copybook.

Any valid points you did have you just shat on with that last one, what a load of sht, if ever there were an example of loser mentality, that's it. The experience last night will be invaluable in this teams journey which will see them achieve success I'm sure.

Re: SL GF | St Helens (Old Trafford) : Sun Sep 25, 2022 8:44 am  

I thought we were a 30% chance of winning yesterday but we just weren’t good enough in key moments. Missing Sezer was huge for us and we’re effectively running with one decent prop (Mik).

Lots of positives this season. For me the crux is getting rid of some dead wood and making a couple of astute signings to freshen things up. Very interested to see the likes of O’Connor, Walters, Holroyd, Edwards, Sinfield etc impact on first grade in 2023.

Re: SL GF | St Helens (Old Trafford) : Sun Sep 25, 2022 8:47 am  

Seth wrote:

And to have those fist 17 on the pitch more, the games missed through suspension and injury have been just unbelievable. I'm sure (I hope) next year our season will get off to a much more competitive start.

So another key point is that the RFL needs to sort out the disciplinary process bc it has been laughable at times
this year and is really turning fans off the game.

We all recognise the need to protect players’ health but they’re doing it wrong.

Also need to improve standards in refereeing somehow: part of that might be some re-interpretation of some rules which are too complex - or introduce a little more common sense. Agreed with Rohan Smith’s comments re. offside for example.

Re: SL GF | St Helens (Old Trafford) : Sun Sep 25, 2022 9:14 am  

Seth wrote:

And to have those fist 17 on the pitch more, the games missed through suspension and injury have been just unbelievable. I'm sure (I hope) next year our season will get off to a much more competitive start.

That is absolutely key. Regardless of incoming signs we just have to do better in terms of getting key players on the pitch. Newman played less than 25% of games, Fusitua less than 50%, Sezer about 50%, and Holroyd a big fat zero. If all of those had been at around the 70% mark chances we'd have been round about top four all season, not having to perform miracles to make the six.

Re: SL GF | St Helens (Old Trafford) : Sun Sep 25, 2022 9:31 am  

I thought Leeds were absolutely dominated yesterday and the score line flattered Leeds.

That said, they have some very talented young players they can build a team around

Re: SL GF | St Helens (Old Trafford) : Sun Sep 25, 2022 9:34 am  

Something that stood out watching Saints last night was their intensity and speed over the 80 minutes in both attack and defence. We know their outside backs get them going (but thought we handled them well), but the speed of movement from Welsby and Lomax is far above what we have. They change the point of attack before the defence even get chance to realise what's going on. And their defence just stifles teams.

We had our moments to really make it a game, but didn't take them, but I came away immensely proud of the team. Showed enough last night, and over the previous few weeks to show we'll be battling at the top next year. For the first time in ages, it feels like we are moving in the right direction.

Someone said that Saints haven't had a drop like other teams. They did when Cunningham was coach and really fell away, but they addressed it quickly. It's taken Leeds far too long to get a proper coach in place and he's got players on contract he'd probably like to move on. But we've got the makings of a good squad, just need some Bielsa type additions (who are better than the players they're replacing).

But discipline has improved since Rohan came in. So has defence and our attack actually started to score points. Players have improved individually and hes given young players regular games like O'Connor and Walters. An unexpected trip to OT to finish the season will be a huge experience for our players. Hopefully Smith gets to bring his coaching team in.

Re: SL GF | St Helens (Old Trafford) : Sun Sep 25, 2022 9:36 am  

FlexWheeler wrote:

You can use the intensity argument going back 10 years from 2005 to 95 for example, but definitely not going back 10 years from now. Pound for pound, 2000-2010 was probably the best super league era for intensity and entertainment, as well as stars in the competition. We've got into a situation now where basically all the top teams are underperforming (Warrington, hull, Leeds, wigan) and there's no fix because non of them have very good spines, the quality young players for those spines aren't there, and if they are waiting in the wings will take years to come through. Scrapping around for overseas won't work. Saints have a good spine, who are a good age. They will just keep winning and winning...and winning. Attendance in next year's grand final will be lower. Tv money will eventually follow suit.

This is the worst I've ever seen it.

We'd have been better off not making the grand final, never good enough to win it, but now we've got a loss on our copybook.

You’re coming across “the era my team was dominant in was the best”. I watched some of the most competitive games from the early 2000s recently. Yes you had Farrell and Sculthorpe throwing haymakers, but you would have thought the ball was a bad of soap, and if the teams would have spent half as much energy defending as they did fighting it would have been a much different game. Two of the tries in 2004 Good Friday just had Long running straight through the middle with no one even close to him.

As for next year onwards, yeah, I’m currently feeling confident going 5 in a row. Getting Dodd back into our spine will be huge, and I’m very interested with the 1 or 2 signings were likely to get to replace Grace. But I don’t agree that means the attendance will necessarily be lower. As has been put elsewhere after watching the game on TV, it’s the premium, neutral seats that seemed to have the biggest gaps, and I suspect that’s cost of living coupled with people buying WC tickets. No WC next year will likely see them return. Obviously another Catalans appearance will make it tough to match this years but otherwise I don’t see any real reason to be negative about the attendance or the upcoming season. Leeds and Wigan should be both right up their competitively next year, it’s absolutely make or break for Warrington with the transfers they’ve had this year, and if Tony Smith can’t turn Hull around, then there really is no hope over there.