Re: The BBC editing political clips ? : Sun Dec 08, 2019 8:19 pm  

Scarlet Pimpernell wrote:

The problem is he said 50,000 NEW nurses, not 31,000 new nurses which was correct.

No, he didn't.

Re: The BBC editing political clips ? : Sun Dec 08, 2019 8:46 pm  

I bet you also believe the worst thing he has done was ride his bike on the path.

Re: The BBC editing political clips ? : Sun Dec 08, 2019 9:02 pm  

Cronus wrote:

No, he didn't.

No, you're right, he didn't.

His exact words were "in this manifesto, we pledge 50,000 more nurses, and their bursaries".

[Mild Rover]

Re: The BBC editing political clips ? : Mon Dec 09, 2019 8:27 am  

King Street Cat wrote:

No, you're right, he didn't.

His exact words were "in this manifesto, we pledge 50,000 more nurses, and their bursaries".

Ah, the good old hanging comparator.

Tbf, he did ‘clarify’ it in the debate.

I do think he and Cummings tie themselves in knots unnecessarily. For most voters, I suspect a big-sounding number is enough. If they’d put the accurate net contribution to the EU on the side of the bus or just said 31,000 more nurses they could have avoided this. Is it just recreational dishonesty? Or do they perversely want to get called out on it - like an internet troll who doesn’t care about winning the argument, just that it rumbles on so they can keep repeating their spurious point?

Re: The BBC editing political clips ? : Mon Dec 09, 2019 8:30 am  

Cronus wrote:

Why not? Cos you say so?

None of us can predict what could change or affect plans over the next decade, but in general 10 years to plan and build a hospital seems entirely reasonable. I agree it's an ambitious time frame to complete 34, but to call it a lie is incorrect.

I must have imagined the leader's debate the other night when Johnson very clearly explained the 50,000 would consist of retaining 19,000 who would otherwise be lost to attrition, while recruiting 31,000 new nurses (undergrad/postgrad, apprentices and from abroad). Indeed, it's been explained since the manifesto was released. I don't see any lies there. Any sensible business factors in attrition when planning resources.

Just because it's not "50,000 brand spanking new nurses" you call it a lie. I get it, the left are making the most of the supposed issue of 'trust', but at least make your accusations credible.

I think you've been sniffing the glue and smoking the seed money.

Even for you, this is a little bit desperate.

You often like to use the potential appearance of Unicorns to cast doubt on the validity of anything that you dont agree with and call others who may have concerns which you believe to be trivial as "snowflakes".
It is more likely that we will see 40 unicorns, being ridden by pink Dodo's, with a 4ft covering of snow on the ground, than seeing 40 NEW hospitals completed within 10 years and you know it.
The Tory tactic of pretending that they will invest heavily in the NHS is a good one, which makes some of Labours claims about the NHS less potent but, in supporting the claim of 40 NEW hospitals, you have either been taken in or, are happy to propagate the lie.
I'm happy to bookmark this one and we can come back to it in 2030 - fancy a spread bet, either side of 20 NEW hospitals to be completed in 10 years.
Btw, you cant count having a lick of paint as being a NEW hospital

Re: The BBC editing political clips ? : Mon Dec 09, 2019 8:42 am  

Mild Rover wrote:

I do think he and Cummings tie themselves in knots unnecessarily. For most voters, I suspect a big-sounding number is enough. If they’d put the accurate net contribution to the EU on the side of the bus or just said 31,000 more nurses they could have avoided this. Is it just recreational dishonesty? Or do they perversely want to get called out on it - like an internet troll who doesn’t care about winning the argument, just that it rumbles on so they can keep repeating their spurious point?

I agree. 31,000 sounds plentiful, if a touch optimistic. To stretch it to 50,000 just sounds like a figure plucked from the air. At least the 31,000 figure sounds like it's had some working out involved.

The Nicky Morgan interview on GMB when she carried on quoting the 50,000 figure, despite being repeatedly told it was 19,000 retained and 31,000 new, was just surreal. The thing is, despite multiple clarifications of the figures since the initial announcement, there will still be vast sections of the general public who will still be banging on about 50,000 NEW nurses.

Re: The BBC editing political clips ? : Mon Dec 09, 2019 9:16 am  

King Street Cat wrote:

I agree. 31,000 sounds plentiful, if a touch optimistic. To stretch it to 50,000 just sounds like a figure plucked from the air. At least the 31,000 figure sounds like it's had some working out involved.

The Nicky Morgan interview on GMB when she carried on quoting the 50,000 figure, despite being repeatedly told it was 19,000 retained and 31,000 new, was just surreal. The thing is, despite multiple clarifications of the figures since the initial announcement, there will still be vast sections of the general public who will still be banging on about 50,000 NEW nurses.

But, but, but, it is 50,000 new nurses, honest

Re: The BBC editing political clips ? : Mon Dec 16, 2019 2:18 am  

“There will be a substantial increase, I think from 280,000 to 330,000 nurses.”.......so said Mr Johnson on LBC ....same interview, he claimed “40 new hospitals will be built”. Same interview....Mr Johnson said: “I'm also proud that we're putting 20,000 more police out on the streets”.....so slightly fewer than the police numbers before the tories came to power.....
....then...Mr Johnson then turned to education, saying: “we're lifting up funding for every school in the country.”....Hmmm.....Lifting Up eh

I will enjoy the campaign in 5 years time

Re: The BBC editing political clips ? : Mon Dec 16, 2019 9:16 am  

AXE2GRIND wrote:

“we're lifting up funding for every school in the country.”

There's that deliberate obfuscation of the English language again. Lifting up as in raising it? Lifting up as in taking it away? How far are they lifting it up? A quid a year, for every school, would be classed as lifting up funding. It leaves the public with more questions than answers, and allows them to make it into whatever they want.

Re: The BBC editing political clips ? : Mon Dec 16, 2019 9:39 am  

"Boris Johnson’s promise to employ an extra 50,000 NHS nurses has unravelled further after a cabinet minister suggested that the pledge would not be met for 10 years.

Nicky Morgan, the culture secretary, said the additional nurses would be in place “if you look in 10 years’ time” and struggled to explain how the government would convince current nurses not to leave."

And so the rowing back begins...