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There are a few things at the club for me that are concerning.
I’m the last remaining Burgess foot soldier. He brought something to a team that Warrington haven’t had before. A steel and defensive spirit which saw use drive players back and choke teams out of possession and position. Which allowed a simple but fast attack to take advantage. But that hasn’t been there for a while now. Cas got out of their in goal three times last week, and Singleton and Westerman were made to look like prime Bradford.
But, there is evidence that this team can play. It can compete, including against the best. There was no evidence of that under Powell. Bar a run of beating the cellar dwellers there was no evidence that we could beat an egg.
I maintain that if we can find some resilience in defence, and unlock that spirit, this isn’t a 7, 8, 9 place team. But if you watch the last match back, and I could go back further, someone needs to get a grip of Sneyd and make sure that he is at least a speed bump. The look on Fitzgibbon’s face after the first try last week was enough to see the frustration there, and I’ve been critical of Sneyd’s defence before but it’s just a gaping hole at the moment. Similarly with his nonchalant approach at the line. It’s lethargic and often results with the ball on the ground.
It’s not just Sneyd though, Williams too plays like he’s a headless chicken at times. Trying to fix things on his own. It’s a sorry state of affairs that when we need a calm head at half back, Currie appears our best option.
Yes, we’re missing Walker to tie in defenders at the ruck, and to create some pressure on them to defend the middle before sliding, but that doesn’t wash when you have 2 England halfbacks and a marquee fullback. The halves need to step up and take accountability.
My gripe with Sam is that we’ve developed this culture of challenging decisions. Thewlis annoys the life out of me with it. Marshall is as much as a moaner, but at least he plays the ball quickly and then has a little cry. Thewlis just slows the play the ball down, pulls his face and then the next carrier gets hammered as a result. Yes, we’ve had some tough calls go against us, but so what. Go and moan about it at half time or after the game. We kill our own momentum time and time again.
I think, given the way last year went, and a cup run, Sam has credit in the bank IF we make the six for next year. It’s a huge ask now, we needed 8 points from 10 from the last five games and dropped easy points. Now we have to get something out of Leigh and Hull even to stay in the chase, and likely have to beat Wigan and rely on others losing form. But behind this is a club that is floundering. Injuries mounting up and no real investigations as to how they have come about. 3 ACL’s is extraordinary. These aren’t impact injuries, is it about preparation, is it about the field or the training pitch? Who knows but the club should be investigating why its assets aren’t on the pitch.
In a salary cap sport where there are a number of close competitors, you need to get the best out of your squad. And you see with Wigan of late, take one or two key players out and the results just fall away. They are lucky not to be 0 from 5 having scraped past Huddersfield on the last play and a dodgy call which ultimately got McGuire sacked. Leeds last night too, Connor goes off and they look completely rudderless. So there is mitigation for the RESULT but not for the effort areas and resilience.
Theres nothing in the murmuring of Williams, Burgess or Vaughan contract stuff. Or the drinking culture. These are all things that people grasp at when the results are poor. When teams win, nobody cares. Look at the Walker to Canberra stuff last year, nobody cared because we were winning.
We need a response after this week off (which, Hull KR aside nobody had played more games than us this last two seasons). This is the chance to get some system and structure work done, get Walker and Matterson on the field and at least make a chase of it. No more moaning, no more half baked efforts in defence.
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| Rank | Posts | Team |
| Player Coach | 14890 | Warrington Wolves |
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| Jun 2006 | 19 years | |
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Sam might not be the answer, but of the past failures, Smith and Price both did so much more without ever going through the complete collapse of 2022.
One could argue Smith taking us into the bottom 4 playoffs with championship sides was pretty rank. Price was great in his 1st year, and a complete failure in his following three. He has never been a head coach since. Smith, absolutely. He missed the play offs (direct equivalent) and ultimately there was no green shoot of recovery in that team. He paid for it with his job. Price’s ‘failure’ compared to what had come since actually doesn’t look too bad. I’m not advocating for him, and wouldn’t want him back, but from where we were on season debrief of 2021, to where we were at debrief of 2022, proved the point really. We had tantrums about being knocked out at home against Hull Kr in the playoffs, and relied on scraping past Toulouse to remain in the top flight. While this season hasn’t been good enough, and it’s not, we can’t judge former seasons differently because the coach got Cas to a grand final a few years ago and stopped Mike Cooper selling T-shirts. It was a failure, by every metric and almost everyone brought in during that period is now gone, Harrison and Dufty aside (Vaughan at seasons end). And that is actually really haunting, given the list includes but not limited to Minikin, Russell, Matautia, Holmes, Kasiano, Dudson, McGuire, Magoulias, Nicholson, Bullock, Drinkwater, Wardle. Add that to the players that left during that period, Hill, Cooper, Charnley, Widdop, Hughes, Mulhearn, Davis, Clark, Dean, Longstaff… That’s 20+ players gone since Price left in 2022. And I’d argue the second list is a better list of players than the first, 4 of them have gone on to represent England since leaving us as scrap. Fair points. The Powell period was a failure - no argument from me. Im just not sure that equates to Powell is a poor coach and it was all his fault. I think he had an impossible job and lets face it we have been rank now under 4 different coaches. In fact it was only for a limited period under Smith and one year of Price that we were anything like contenders in the last 20 years. Now, if you are an advocate of judging seasons the same and not differently without past influence then you must compare the league performance of Warrington in 2025 with the league performance in 2023 which got Powell the sack. As I have said, we are worse this year than 2023 by every metric (wins/position/points difference) but you give Burgess a pass and focus on how bad Powell was. | | | |
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| Club Coach | 2989 | Warrington Wolves |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Oct 2005 | 20 years | |
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| Jul 2025 | Feb 2025 | LINK |
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We were most definitely contenders last season. I believe Powell’s problems were the fact he wanted a whole root and branch clear out when that team only needed limited tweaks. That is where he may be limited as a coach and why he was the wrong choice. He was handed an excellent starting front row for a start. We were never a good fit and if the club backed off and let him get on with it then he is to blame for what ensued. Things I heard from some players don’t paint Powell in a great light.
We always use this barometer with players so do people thinks HKR, Wigan or Saints would have him as head coach? I’d say no.
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| Rank | Posts | Team |
| Player Coach | 14890 | Warrington Wolves |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Jun 2006 | 19 years | |
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| ratticusfinch:
We were most definitely contenders last season. I believe Powell’s problems were the fact he wanted a whole root and branch clear out when that team only needed limited tweaks. That is where he may be limited as a coach and why he was the wrong choice. He was handed an excellent starting front row for a start. We were never a good fit and if the club backed off and let him get on with it then he is to blame for what ensued. Things I heard from some players don’t paint Powell in a great light.
We always use this barometer with players so do people thinks HKR, Wigan or Saints would have him as head coach? I’d say no.
Good points, in reply 1. There was wide agreement post Price that there was a big job on to rebuild. Didn't Wane say something like that during a Sky interview? Rather than a tweak. We had just bottled home playoff games 3 years in a row. 2. HKR, Wigan, Saints point - Powell coached Leeds which you would argue are a big club. Do you think those clubs would hire Burgess? 3. What did the players say? Was it the players who had their outside sports sock or plumbing business interests affected? 4. Yes we were suprise contenders last year. So I make that 4 years under Smith, 1 under Price and last year (6 total) in the last 2 decades. Im not saying the Powell period was a success at all. The fit may have been bad. I just think there is enough evidence to suggest that perhaps he is a decent coach and that the problems at Warrington run deeper. | | |
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| New Signing | 68 | No
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Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Mar 2025 | 0 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Jul 2025 | Jan 1970 | LINK |
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| Wires71:BarbedWire2:Wires71:BarbedWire2:
Sam might not be the answer, but of the past failures, Smith and Price both did so much more without ever going through the complete collapse of 2022.
One could argue Smith taking us into the bottom 4 playoffs with championship sides was pretty rank. Price was great in his 1st year, and a complete failure in his following three. He has never been a head coach since. Smith, absolutely. He missed the play offs (direct equivalent) and ultimately there was no green shoot of recovery in that team. He paid for it with his job. Price’s ‘failure’ compared to what had come since actually doesn’t look too bad. I’m not advocating for him, and wouldn’t want him back, but from where we were on season debrief of 2021, to where we were at debrief of 2022, proved the point really. We had tantrums about being knocked out at home against Hull Kr in the playoffs, and relied on scraping past Toulouse to remain in the top flight. While this season hasn’t been good enough, and it’s not, we can’t judge former seasons differently because the coach got Cas to a grand final a few years ago and stopped Mike Cooper selling T-shirts. It was a failure, by every metric and almost everyone brought in during that period is now gone, Harrison and Dufty aside (Vaughan at seasons end). And that is actually really haunting, given the list includes but not limited to Minikin, Russell, Matautia, Holmes, Kasiano, Dudson, McGuire, Magoulias, Nicholson, Bullock, Drinkwater, Wardle. Add that to the players that left during that period, Hill, Cooper, Charnley, Widdop, Hughes, Mulhearn, Davis, Clark, Dean, Longstaff… That’s 20+ players gone since Price left in 2022. And I’d argue the second list is a better list of players than the first, 4 of them have gone on to represent England since leaving us as scrap. Fair points. The Powell period was a failure - no argument from me. Im just not sure that equates to Powell is a poor coach and it was all his fault. I think he had an impossible job and lets face it we have been rank now under 4 different coaches. In fact it was only for a limited period under Smith and one year of Price that we were anything like contenders in the last 20 years. Now, if you are an advocate of judging seasons the same and not differently without past influence then you must compare the league performance of Warrington in 2025 with the league performance in 2023 which got Powell the sack. As I have said, we are worse this year than 2023 by every metric (wins/position/points difference) but you give Burgess a pass and focus on how bad Powell was. I’m not saying it is/was all Powell fault, and I don’t expect you to go back through the archives but if you look at the threads of his appointment and dismissal I put a lot of this at the feet of the decision makers at the club. At the time, we were regularly in the top 4, and the job was to unlock that next gear to go the next step and win it. My point then, and still is, on what basis was Powell selected to do that job. The league outputs are similar this season, which is alarming. But in both situations you look at the aggravating and mitigating factors. Sam’s conduct, Vegas and ref moaning have made our season worse, not better. I think that is a fact. Mitigation, huge chunks of salary cap in the stands for the middle of the season (could be a strength & conditioning thing, could be the quality of training facilities) failed to recruit a second row (is this Chambers, did we gamble on Bateman not getting an NRL deal) and a rough schedule (going to Vegas wouldn’t have been Sam’s choice, winnable games after key cup fixtures) plus we actually made a major final. As it stands, Sam has made 2 of 3 available major finals. But still, won nothing. So it’s a mix bag to review at seasons end, but I think a lot of the outcome will depend on the run in. If we shape up and chase down the 6 and make it, I think there is enough to keep him in for next year. If we miss, it’s a close one and I get it if we do sack him. The equivalent of Powell, the disruption in team selection was largely man made, sacking, loaning and hiring his people who were later dropped or moved around, including his assistant (name I can’t even remember, but was replaced by Marshall after 1 year) Major injuries to key positions were not a contributor. There was no Vegas, with a game a week later that you in hindsight needed to in. No cup quarter, semi or final, again with no fixtures the week after that you needed points from. And we’re splitting hairs over table position without those obstacles. Powell also openly criticised Dean and Thewlis, taking Thewlis “out of the firing line” (which he said publicly) against Huddersfield only to pick him again the week after at Wigan. Dean never played again. The reasons/contributors/excuses just aren’t there for Powell. There was not a performance to point to and say “when my plan is played to, we compete against big teams” whereas Sam can do that. And to answer a point from above, it’s not justifying who bad we are now because we’ve been worse. It’s still about who can take us from a plucky “also ran” to a winner. With Williams, Dufty, Sneyd, Walker and Currie all fit next week and beyond, Sam has an opportunity to get a song out of this team and show us and the board that he’s worthy of another year. The ball is in their court now, and by dumb luck alone if we do pick up we could somehow still stumble into the 6 and get a free shot at it with no expectation. | | | |
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| New Signing | 68 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Mar 2025 | 0 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Jul 2025 | Jan 1970 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
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| Wires71:BarbedWire2:Wires71:BarbedWire2:
Sam might not be the answer, but of the past failures, Smith and Price both did so much more without ever going through the complete collapse of 2022.
One could argue Smith taking us into the bottom 4 playoffs with championship sides was pretty rank. Price was great in his 1st year, and a complete failure in his following three. He has never been a head coach since. Smith, absolutely. He missed the play offs (direct equivalent) and ultimately there was no green shoot of recovery in that team. He paid for it with his job. Price’s ‘failure’ compared to what had come since actually doesn’t look too bad. I’m not advocating for him, and wouldn’t want him back, but from where we were on season debrief of 2021, to where we were at debrief of 2022, proved the point really. We had tantrums about being knocked out at home against Hull Kr in the playoffs, and relied on scraping past Toulouse to remain in the top flight. While this season hasn’t been good enough, and it’s not, we can’t judge former seasons differently because the coach got Cas to a grand final a few years ago and stopped Mike Cooper selling T-shirts. It was a failure, by every metric and almost everyone brought in during that period is now gone, Harrison and Dufty aside (Vaughan at seasons end). And that is actually really haunting, given the list includes but not limited to Minikin, Russell, Matautia, Holmes, Kasiano, Dudson, McGuire, Magoulias, Nicholson, Bullock, Drinkwater, Wardle. Add that to the players that left during that period, Hill, Cooper, Charnley, Widdop, Hughes, Mulhearn, Davis, Clark, Dean, Longstaff… That’s 20+ players gone since Price left in 2022. And I’d argue the second list is a better list of players than the first, 4 of them have gone on to represent England since leaving us as scrap. Fair points. The Powell period was a failure - no argument from me. Im just not sure that equates to Powell is a poor coach and it was all his fault. I think he had an impossible job and lets face it we have been rank now under 4 different coaches. In fact it was only for a limited period under Smith and one year of Price that we were anything like contenders in the last 20 years. Now, if you are an advocate of judging seasons the same and not differently without past influence then you must compare the league performance of Warrington in 2025 with the league performance in 2023 which got Powell the sack. As I have said, we are worse this year than 2023 by every metric (wins/position/points difference) but you give Burgess a pass and focus on how bad Powell was. I’m not saying it is/was all Powell fault, and I don’t expect you to go back through the archives but if you look at the threads of his appointment and dismissal I put a lot of this at the feet of the decision makers at the club. At the time, we were regularly in the top 4, and the job was to unlock that next gear to go the next step and win it. My point then, and still is, on what basis was Powell selected to do that job. The league outputs are similar this season, which is alarming. But in both situations you look at the aggravating and mitigating factors. Sam’s conduct, Vegas and ref moaning have made our season worse, not better. I think that is a fact. Mitigation, huge chunks of salary cap in the stands for the middle of the season (could be a strength & conditioning thing, could be the quality of training facilities) failed to recruit a second row (is this Chambers, did we gamble on Bateman not getting an NRL deal) and a rough schedule (going to Vegas wouldn’t have been Sam’s choice, winnable games after key cup fixtures) plus we actually made a major final. As it stands, Sam has made 2 of 3 available major finals. But still, won nothing. So it’s a mix bag to review at seasons end, but I think a lot of the outcome will depend on the run in. If we shape up and chase down the 6 and make it, I think there is enough to keep him in for next year. If we miss, it’s a close one and I get it if we do sack him. The equivalent of Powell, the disruption in team selection was largely man made, sacking, loaning and hiring his people who were later dropped or moved around, including his assistant (name I can’t even remember, but was replaced by Marshall after 1 year) Major injuries to key positions were not a contributor. There was no Vegas, with a game a week later that you in hindsight needed to in. No cup quarter, semi or final, again with no fixtures the week after that you needed points from. And we’re splitting hairs over table position without those obstacles. Powell also openly criticised Dean and Thewlis, taking Thewlis “out of the firing line” (which he said publicly) against Huddersfield only to pick him again the week after at Wigan. Dean never played again. The reasons/contributors/excuses just aren’t there for Powell. There was not a performance to point to and say “when my plan is played to, we compete against big teams” whereas Sam can do that. And to answer a point from above, it’s not justifying who bad we are now because we’ve been worse. It’s still about who can take us from a plucky “also ran” to a winner. With Williams, Dufty, Sneyd, Walker and Currie all fit next week and beyond, Sam has an opportunity to get a song out of this team and show us and the board that he’s worthy of another year. The ball is in their court now, and by dumb luck alone if we do pick up we could somehow still stumble into the 6 and get a free shot at it with no expectation. | | | |
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