FORUMS FORUMS






RLFANS.COM
Celebrating
25 years service to
the Rugby League
Community!

  
 Current LIVE TV Match : Hull Kingston Rovers 28 - 0 Hull FC LIVE ON SKY SPORTS Half Time
WWW.RLFANS.COM • View topic - Shaw and Croft
RankPostsTeam
Player Coach1194
JoinedServiceReputation
Jun 05 200519 years283rd
OnlineLast PostLast Page
29th Mar 24 08:399th Jan 24 12:53LINK
Milestone Posts
1000
2500
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Working in the belly of the beast!
Signature
"Stand by me as I stand by you, be brave and dare to dream".

Re: Shaw and Croft : Mon Dec 05, 2022 2:46 pm  
vastman wrote:
Whats game time got to do with anything?

It's about money, they were offered a deal and didn't accept it, absolutely nothing to do with game time.

A coach puts a value on a player and the club then has to find the cash, those two players were given a value by Mash and they didn't agree. His job depends on who he signs so he cant be emotional even though he was the man who signed them as youngsters. He will have offered then the most he could but just like Chester and Poching he is yet to find the magic money tree. Do you know where it is?

Finally should you be willing to show some patience and not pre judge, you will soon see that the money earmarked for Croft and Shaw has now been used to promote two more youngsters. How do you know they won't be far better?

In fact I'd hazard a guess that one is Ollie Pratt, and no offence to Croft, Pratt is in a different class.


As I see it these rules were brought in to protect clubs from having their pockets picked; very noble & worthwhile. It appears that the unintended consequence though is to potentially force young players to accept a contract beneath their value/worth or face being forced out of the game. This isn’t good at the best of times & with the player pool shrinking every year is just plain silly - anyone else remember pre-bosman? I just can’t see this standing up in Court, whether the player(s) can afford to challenge it is a different matter.
I’ve every sympathy with Wakefield, but I just don’t think it’s a good look for them, not any club to effectively say to young players: sign the deal or go find another sport to play. It would certainly make me re-evaluate as a parent to a rugby playing kid.
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
International Chairman35916
JoinedServiceReputation
Oct 13 200419 years15th
OnlineLast PostLast Page
29th Mar 24 09:2029th Mar 24 09:16LINK
Milestone Posts
30000
40000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Poodle Power!
Signature
SUPPORT SWAG...

Re: Shaw and Croft : Mon Dec 05, 2022 3:07 pm  
steadygetyerboots-on wrote:
As I see it these rules were brought in to protect clubs from having their pockets picked; very noble & worthwhile. It appears that the unintended consequence though is to potentially force young players to accept a contract beneath their value/worth or face being forced out of the game. This isn’t good at the best of times & with the player pool shrinking every year is just plain silly - anyone else remember pre-bosman? I just can’t see this standing up in Court, whether the player(s) can afford to challenge it is a different matter.
I’ve every sympathy with Wakefield, but I just don’t think it’s a good look for them, not any club to effectively say to young players: sign the deal or go find another sport to play. It would certainly make me re-evaluate as a parent to a rugby playing kid.


Yes but who decides that worth, this is the crux and the point I've been making. I suspect they have been given duff advise and over-valued themselves, This I would say is backed up by the lack of apparent offers as let's be honest the comp amounts are not huge.

What this whole story stinks of to me is an Agent who's cocked up and is now feeding the story into the media to gain a sympathy angle, and it's working and thats pure cynical manipulation imo.

On your last point I utterly disagree, that's wanting your cake and eating it. SL is a business not a charitable foundation. When clubs sign youngster they are offering them a chance to pursue their dream, not a promise. No club, certainly in the last 30 years has ever sat a kid down and said we guarantee you a future in the game on a wage that will suit you from the start. Thirty years ago we went full time and with that came huge benefits for some, but for others massive disappointments, that is the very nature of professional sport, every sport not just RL, so there is nothing to re-evaluate IMHO. It's nothing to do with how it looks, it's how it is and pretending otherwise only gives false hope.

Also I'm not sure you can just pick and chose a sport, being good at RL doesn't mean you'd be just as good at football, certainly wasn't the case for me.
RankPostsTeam
International Star5113
JoinedServiceReputation
Feb 23 201410 years82nd
OnlineLast PostLast Page
29th Mar 24 00:2628th Mar 24 19:26LINK
Milestone Posts
5000
10000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530

Re: Shaw and Croft : Mon Dec 05, 2022 4:13 pm  
vastman wrote:
Yes but who decides that worth, this is the crux and the point I've been making. I suspect they have been given duff advise and over-valued themselves, This I would say is backed up by the lack of apparent offers as let's be honest the comp amounts are not huge.

What this whole story stinks of to me is an Agent who's cocked up and is now feeding the story into the media to gain a sympathy angle, and it's working and thats pure cynical manipulation imo.

On your last point I utterly disagree, that's wanting your cake and eating it. SL is a business not a charitable foundation. When clubs sign youngster they are offering them a chance to pursue their dream, not a promise. No club, certainly in the last 30 years has ever sat a kid down and said we guarantee you a future in the game on a wage that will suit you from the start. Thirty years ago we went full time and with that came huge benefits for some, but for others massive disappointments, that is the very nature of professional sport, every sport not just RL, so there is nothing to re-evaluate IMHO. It's nothing to do with how it looks, it's how it is and pretending otherwise only gives false hope.

Also I'm not sure you can just pick and chose a sport, being good at RL doesn't mean you'd be just as good at football, certainly wasn't the case for me.


That’s the problem there can be no offer to either player because to sign either would mean compensation being paid to Wakefield. It is only your opinion they overvalued themselves maybe we undervalued them. We now face either paying their contracts for the next 24 months for Croft and 48 months for Shaw or foregoing the compensation to allow them to be free agents.
If you know another way please enlighten us.
RankPostsTeam
Club Captain1559No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Nov 14 20149 years263rd
OnlineLast PostLast Page
19th Sep 23 04:368th Feb 23 06:40LINK
Milestone Posts
1000
2500
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530

Re: Shaw and Croft : Mon Dec 05, 2022 4:21 pm  
vastman wrote:
Whats game time got to do with anything?

It's about money, they were offered a deal and didn't accept it, absolutely nothing to do with game time.

A coach puts a value on a player and the club then has to find the cash, those two players were given a value by Mash and they didn't agree. His job depends on who he signs so he cant be emotional even though he was the man who signed them as youngsters. He will have offered then the most he could but just like Chester and Poching he is yet to find the magic money tree. Do you know where it is? Well I tell you this Croft signed keighlly before the end season also before mash and he’s another one Murphy has one season then he’s gone game time us important especially when you’ve been injured all season more bull from vastman we’re just a feeder club

Finally should you be willing to show some patience and not pre judge, you will soon see that the money earmarked for Croft and Shaw has now been used to promote two more youngsters. How do you know they won't be far better?

In fact I'd hazard a guess that one is Ollie Pratt, and no offence to Croft, Pratt is in a different class.
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
Player Coach5174
JoinedServiceReputation
Oct 11 200419 years71st
OnlineLast PostLast Page
28th Mar 24 23:0229th Mar 24 11:05LINK
Milestone Posts
5000
10000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Orange street

Re: Shaw and Croft : Mon Dec 05, 2022 4:33 pm  
I wonder which agent (s) represents these two. I just think there could be more to this than we believe. I know Carter can be a tight miserable sod at times and for that reason I really cant see him being happy to continue to pay these two and get nothing in return. Surely he would just cut his losses and release them as free agents.

I may be miles out here, but I am wondering if he believes they have had better offers from other clubs and said club (s) were hoping we would let them go and without enforcing a fee. However we were not falling for that and holding out.

Like I said speculation on my part, but whatever the outcome whoever is representing them has a lot to answer also for allowing them to get into this mess.
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
Fringe Player748
JoinedServiceReputation
Jan 06 20222 years113th
OnlineLast PostLast Page
29th Mar 24 09:5229th Mar 24 02:44LINK
Milestone Posts
500
1000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530

Re: Shaw and Croft : Mon Dec 05, 2022 4:40 pm  
Disappointing re Shaw… thought he looked the real deal…

But we move on!
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
Club Coach17871
JoinedServiceReputation
Apr 24 201113 years46th
OnlineLast PostLast Page
28th Mar 24 16:0828th Mar 24 10:32LINK
Milestone Posts
15000
20000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530

Re: Shaw and Croft : Mon Dec 05, 2022 4:52 pm  
cosmicat wrote:
Disappointed again two good players just needed game time poor from trinity


Do you think that either player is better than what we have ?
It's a tough business, really tough, especially on younger players but, IF they are good enough, they will find another club and maybe, they will prove Trinity wrong.
Bottom line is that we cant keep hold of every player but, good luck to both of them in whatever comes next.
RankPostsTeam
Club Captain1559No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Nov 14 20149 years263rd
OnlineLast PostLast Page
19th Sep 23 04:368th Feb 23 06:40LINK
Milestone Posts
1000
2500
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530

Re: Shaw and Croft : Mon Dec 05, 2022 5:12 pm  
wrencat1873 wrote:
Do you think that either player is better than what we have ?
It's a tough business, really tough, especially on younger players but, IF they are good enough, they will find another club and maybe, they will prove Trinity wrong.
Bottom line is that we cant keep hold of every player but, good luck to both of them in whatever comes next.

Bloody hell we can’t keep our best winger no not Tom !!
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
Player Coach2306No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Sep 16 200915 years179th
OnlineLast PostLast Page
28th Mar 24 17:5129th Mar 24 10:27LINK
Milestone Posts
1000
2500
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530

Re: Shaw and Croft : Mon Dec 05, 2022 5:18 pm  
Carter has never come across as the type of person to shaft anyone. We're only getting one side of the story, think I'll wait for the club's version of events before being critical.
RankPostsTeam
International Star5113
JoinedServiceReputation
Feb 23 201410 years82nd
OnlineLast PostLast Page
29th Mar 24 00:2628th Mar 24 19:26LINK
Milestone Posts
5000
10000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530

Re: Shaw and Croft : Mon Dec 05, 2022 5:25 pm  
wrencat1873 wrote:
Do you think that either player is better than what we have ?
It's a tough business, really tough, especially on younger players but, IF they are good enough, they will find another club and maybe, they will prove Trinity wrong.
Bottom line is that we cant keep hold of every player but, good luck to both of them in whatever comes next.


The thing that stops them finding another club is the protections given to the parent club to ensure they are rewarded for the time taken in training etc. This can equate to several thousand pounds (consider it a transfer fee). The downside is that for us to basically stop them we have to pay them their contracts until they reach a certain age (even if out of contract).
We could I suppose waive the transfer fee thereby making them free agents to sign elsewhere and frees us having to continue to pay them.
PreviousNext

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: beamer, djcool, financialtimes, PopTart, Roversspud, Trojan Horse, wakeytrin and 447 guests

REPLY

Subject: 
Message:
   
Please note using apple style emoji's can result in posting failures.
Use the FULL EDITOR to better format content or upload images, be notified of replies etc...

Return to Wakefield Trinity


RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
0m
The Record-Breaking Good Friday Derby Massacre
CarlB
199
2m
Protest
Irregs#16
3
2m
Hull FC
PopTart
36
5m
Game - Song Titles
Boss Hog
34336
6m
TV games not Wire
matt_wire
2876
10m
No grade A for 2025 for Trinity
financialtim
35
14m
BORED The Band Name Game
Boss Hog
56060
18m
Wigan/Saints
Douglas Blac
3
46m
Rd 6 I Cas A
KaeruJim
135
Recent
Investment
Bully_Boxer
32
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
19s
Game - Song Titles
Boss Hog
34336
32s
BORED The Band Name Game
Boss Hog
56060
33s
State of the Nation
UllFC
232
52s
TV Games - Not Hull
Marcus's Bic
1389
1m
No grade A for 2025 for Trinity
financialtim
35
1m
Fevround 2
The Phantom
92
1m
Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE
Jason65
1935
2m
New Investors
BullRaider
2
2m
Wigan/Saints
Douglas Blac
3
3m
This weeks disciplinary
rubber ducki
1008
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
Protest
Irregs#16
3
TODAY
New Investors
BullRaider
2
TODAY
Wigan/Saints
Douglas Blac
3
TODAY
Another Tigers Defeat As Rhinos Go Level Top
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
York - 14th April
PopTart
23
TODAY
Stats article
Sir Gregory
5
TODAY
21 man Squads - Devils v Leopards
WYSIWYG2
5
TODAY
Squad for Catalan
CW8
19
TODAY
The Wigan Way - New Podcast - Chairman Special
Jukesays
1
TODAY
Dons v Swinton Lions 30 June 2024
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Squad for Sheffield
AdamH
1
TODAY
London Away
Fartown58
1
TODAY
The Bulls away
terry silver
9
TODAY
The official Leon Hayes Thread
Smiffy27
18
TODAY
Saints a
apollosghost
26
TODAY
Leon Ruan signs on loan
Jemmo
2
TODAY
Wardle
Jo Jumbuck
3
TODAY
Huddersfield - Home
Deadcowboys1
9
TODAY
Max Wood on loan to Bradford 2 weeks
rubber ducki
7
TODAY
Jake Wardle 5 Year deal
Zig
22
TODAY
No grade A for 2025 for Trinity
financialtim
35
TODAY
Cup Quarter Final TV Arrangements
RLFANS News
1
NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS
Another Tigers Defeat As Rhino..
180
Cup Quarter Final TV Arrangeme..
601
2024 Challenge Cup Quarter Fin..
722
Easy Does It For The Dragons A..
601
Warrington Demolish London For..
705
Leigh Leopards Beat Plucky Fea..
762
Saints Triumph Over Disappoint..
738
Easy Win for the Wolves Over L..
978
Dragons Condemn Castleford To ..
942
Leigh Leopards Secure First Po..
1092
St Helens Tame The Rhinos To W..
1059
Wigan Warriors Come From Behin..
1129
Betfred Championship and Leagu..
1104
2024 Challenge Cup Sixth Round..
3888
Featherstone Win Extra Time Cu..
1218