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Re: Welsby Fri Sep 23, 2022 3:22 pm  
Re: Welsby
Fri Sep 23, 2022 3:22 pm  

User avatarEgg Chasing wrote:
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Stu M wrote:
Quite why you compared CC back then to now I have no idea. The concept hasn't changed, you still only need to win 3 games to get to the Final


Because despite this new amazing level playing field since nasty Wigan were stopped from winning everything, it has still brought the same number of different sides to the final than it did before. What exactly has been "levelled up"

It is still dependant on who has the most money and the best academies etc etc just as it did in 1988, 1992 and 1995.
Re: Welsby Fri Sep 23, 2022 3:25 pm  
Re: Welsby
Fri Sep 23, 2022 3:25 pm  

Stu M wrote:
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Egg Chasing wrote:
What exactly has been "levelled up"


Er

A Salary Cap
Every team being full-time
Improved S & C at each club
All of the traditional big teams having Academies/Reserves
Sport science and access to technology to prevent injuries and fatigue
Better pitches
Better training facilities

All just off the top of my head

When was the last time a club paid a big transfer fee?
Re: Wigan v Sts discussion Fri Sep 23, 2022 3:26 pm  
Re: Wigan v Sts discussion
Fri Sep 23, 2022 3:26 pm  

User avatarEgg Chasing wrote:
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Stu M wrote:
In the main this is a very good post.

However there is a difference between wanting people to bow down to us (in your words) and actually being respectful and recognising the achivements. When Wigan fans throw COVID as excuses whilst we won or any other excuses that they use then naturally that becomes very annoying and a reason why we (well I certainly do) become very defensive.


Appreciate that, and when people throw full time, most money, bought the league etc at us rather than acknowledge how good we were....we get defensive.

I said something a few weeks ago.........swap Wigan for St Helens the last 3 seasons (or at least 2) and we have the COVID card and playing less games than everyone else thrown at us by everyone involved in the game.......including Sky commentators. It literally happens every time we mention our history.
Re: Wigan v Sts discussion Fri Sep 23, 2022 3:28 pm  
Re: Wigan v Sts discussion
Fri Sep 23, 2022 3:28 pm  

Stu M wrote:
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Egg Chasing wrote:
Appreciate that, and when people throw full time, most money, bought the league etc at us rather than acknowledge how good we were....we get defensive


Yes I agree and understand why you get defensive

And fair point that you would have the same accusations. Annoying isn't it :wink:
Re: Welsby Fri Sep 23, 2022 3:30 pm  
Re: Welsby
Fri Sep 23, 2022 3:30 pm  

User avatarEgg Chasing wrote:
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Stu M wrote:
Er

A Salary Cap
Every team being full-time
Improved S & C at each club
All of the traditional big teams having Academies/Reserves
Sport science and access to technology to prevent injuries and fatigue
Better pitches
Better training facilities

All just off the top of my head

When was the last time a club paid a big transfer fee?


A Salary Cap - That not every club spends up to so some sides have a better squad than others
Every team being full-time - Nothing stopping that in 1992. We followed suit why didn't everyone else.
Improved S & C at each club - See above
All of the traditional big teams having Academies/Reserves - See above (although pretty sure most sides had an alliance and an academy back then)
Sport science and access to technology to prevent injuries and fatigue - Give you that one, but again some sides have more money to spend on these than others
Better pitches - You'd hope so
Better training facilities - We used to train on a field at the back of the Kop

All of that has led to less league winners in the last 25 years than the previous 25 though
Re: Welsby Fri Sep 23, 2022 5:53 pm  
Re: Welsby
Fri Sep 23, 2022 5:53 pm  
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Every team ran a reserve side back then, most teams had academy/colts teams Every team "could " spend what they wanted, it was their decision.
Did Saints spend the same as Liverpool City or Wigan the same as Blackpool Borough?

As I've said often enough Andy Farrell was an apprentice joiner with Wigan council when he played in his 1st Challenge Cup Final, watch his recent interview with Kris Radlinski.

The salary cap whereby all teams can spend up to a pre determined ££ was only introduced in 2002.
SAINTS THE ORIGINAL AND PERENNIAL CHEATS

For sale full Saints kit (circa 1989). Shirts in pristine condition, but shorts badly soiled.

For 27 - 0 you get a trophy
For 75 - 0 you get sod all.

Wigan had eight in a row
Saints have five in a row
Re: Wigan v Sts discussion Fri Sep 23, 2022 8:49 pm  
Re: Wigan v Sts discussion
Fri Sep 23, 2022 8:49 pm  

User avatarThe Reaper wrote:
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Egg Chasing wrote:
I hate St Helens with every fibre of my being. This would still be a terrible decision if it was John Bateman or Liam Farrell. Firstly because it was a poor tackle and second because of the can of worms it now opens.

I said last week that Martin couldn't be allowed to get off from his ban (which was a joke decision in the first place) because of the ramifications for the sport and I stand by that this week. Expect there to be appeals and then 2nd appeals galore next season with experts turning up and lawyers looking at every single word used in the minutes for any form of contradiction/error. Not to mention players just pointing to this whenever they get banned for a chicken wing tackle that doesn't actually injure the player.

That sounds like it’d be expensive for clubs

Personally I think it’s a great thing. Less bans all round please
The only reason they look up to you is because they chose to kneel.
Re: Wigan v Sts discussion Fri Sep 23, 2022 8:51 pm  
Re: Wigan v Sts discussion
Fri Sep 23, 2022 8:51 pm  

User avatarThe Reaper wrote:
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NickyKiss wrote:
Maybe from Wiganers it’s partly because it’s Saints but across the game I feel Saints have a very good reputation and that hasn’t stopped people from all angles piling in. I’ve seen numerous players and officials from various Superleague and Championship clubs calling the decision a disgrace. It isn’t because it’s St Helens, it’s because it’s a disgrace. Saints fans themselves know that. They, like we all would, will take it but if they’re honest they know it’s a ban every single day of the week and they would be appalled if it was flipped and an opposition teams player got off.

Knowles only got 2 games because they want him available for the World Cup. Unfortunately to only give him two games, they needed to make out the act wasn’t hugely dangerous and it’s left them wide open to having to turn it over completely. It’s the biggest shambles I can ever recall in terms of a disciplinary outcome but the fact it’s come in 2022 feels inevitable.


Not sure it’s as much of a shambles as allowing Bateman to use up his suspension on games he was never going to play, if we’re honest.

The whole thing is a shambles. It has been all year
The only reason they look up to you is because they chose to kneel.
Re: Wigan v Sts discussion Fri Sep 23, 2022 8:53 pm  
Re: Wigan v Sts discussion
Fri Sep 23, 2022 8:53 pm  

User avatarThe Reaper wrote:
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Egg Chasing wrote:
Or look at it another way.

Wigan beat Leeds, Bateman is banned for 3 games.

Wigan appeal and he is still banned for 3 games BUT the minutes say something like, it was a bad tackle with no regard for player safety but the game is fast paced and players sometimes end up making tackles they didn't intend to make.

Wigan appeal again and he gets off because the wording says he didn't intend to do it meaning it was an accident rather than a bad tackle with no regard for player safety.

Would that be ok?

Don’t think it’s comparable. Would depend on the tackle and how bad it was and the offence. A lot of the time deeming it careless rather than reckless doesn’t let them escape a ban

The thing here was the first panel essentially ruled that he wasn’t guilty of the charge he was up for, but charged him with it anyway. It’s an absolute farce and you’d expect a lot better from a panel that was headed by a judge.
The only reason they look up to you is because they chose to kneel.
Re: Welsby Fri Sep 23, 2022 9:13 pm  
Re: Welsby
Fri Sep 23, 2022 9:13 pm  

User avatarThe Reaper wrote:
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NickyKiss wrote:
They’re the best side of the last 10 years or so but the game here is in the dumps. They’re not even close to being the best Saints side of the Superleague era and that’s if we go all Saints fan and ignore the 100 years before Superleague.

He’s a young kid in fairness, so his statement means very little, as his memory probably goes back to 2008-2010 at best.

I’ve been hearing this line trotted out for years about the quality of the game being much worse than before etc. Every time I watch a game back from the early and mid 00s which are considered the golden era of super league, I can’t help but see how absolutely awful the level of defending was. Yes the attack was great, but the standard of defending was dog and it makes the attacking look a lot better. And you had teams regularly getting pumped by 70/80 points. Don’t think it speaks to the quality really being loads better.

Reality is every generation says this about whatever sport they’re talking about. It’s just nostalgia and nothing more. In reality the game is 1000x faster than it was back then. More handling errors probably because of that fact but in my opinion at least it’s a much better spectacle because of that increase in intensity.
The only reason they look up to you is because they chose to kneel.
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