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BULLSBOY2011:
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I agree. Welsby should have been at FB. Just to have him at FB in the system because if Tomkins goes down. Surely Welsby is next in line for FB?
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Can we talk about Hill. He's a workaholic grafter to be admired at club level, like Andy Lynch and many other relentless machines over the years. His hand will always be up to take the ball in. So I admire and respect the bloke, but is being a hard worker enough to play for your country? Persuade me.
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Pumpetypump wrote:
Can we talk about Hill. He's a workaholic grafter to be admired at club level, like Andy Lynch and many other relentless machines over the years. His hand will always be up to take the ball in. So I admire and respect the bloke, but is being a hard worker enough to play for your country? Persuade me.


A bit like my comments about Sneyd - Aussies seem to have plenty of workmanlike front rowers who just do a job. I would have gone for Oledzki pre-tournament, as potentially more destructive, but have not been overly impressed so far. Matty Lees also disappointed for me. So probably would stick with Hill.
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“You are playing a game of football this afternoon but more than that you are playing for England, and more even than that, you are playing for right versus wrong. You will win because you have to win. Don’t forget that message from home. England expects every one of you to do his duty.”

I thought Hill was lucky to be in the squad at the last world cup, the coach didn't really change the squad much from one season to the next, and Hill felt like he had passed his peak.

To see him still rated as one of the best props in the game is a pretty sad state of affairs, showing that either players haven't developed in the last 5 years to be better than him, or that the coach is not looking in the right places.
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If Walmsley was fit, who would be dropped from the squad? Cooper or Hill? I doubt any on here wouldn’t have taken Lees, Oledski, Burgess, Thompson or Knowles.

Hill is decent at club level. But like people have said. Workmanlike isn’t good enough in this game anymore, especially with the pace of the rucks and the six agains. He hasn’t got the leg speed or the metres after contact anymore.
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“You are playing a game of football this afternoon but more than that you are playing for England, and more even than that, you are playing for right versus wrong. You will win because you have to win. Don’t forget that message from home. England expects every one of you to do his duty.”

To be fair to Hill, he has performed better than others in the squad in the 3 (+1 warmup) games
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“You are playing a game of football this afternoon but more than that you are playing for England, and more even than that, you are playing for right versus wrong. You will win because you have to win. Don’t forget that message from home. England expects every one of you to do his duty.”

Hopie wrote:
2000– Semi Final Exit, Wins against Tier 1 Nations: 0
Team in last tournament appearance:
Radlinski, Walker, Naylor, Senior, Wellens, Deacon, Long
Fielden, Smith, Howard, Sculthorpe, Forshaw, Farrell
Peacock, Hay, Fleary, Anderson
Coach: John Kear

2008 – Semi Final Exit, Wins against Tier 1 Nations: 0
Team in last tournament appearance:
Wellens , Gardner, Gleeson, Senior, Calderwood, McGuire, Burrow
Graham, Roby, Peacock, Westwood, Ellis, Purdham
L Pryce, Morley, Higham, Wilkin
Coach: Tony Smith

2013 – Semi Final Exit, Wins against Tier 1 Nations: 0
Team in last tournament appearance:
Tomkins, Charnley, Watkins, Cudjoe, Hall, Widdop, Sinfield,
Graham, Roby, S. Burgess, Ferres, Westwood, O'Loughlin.
Burrow, G. Burgess, Hill, Ablett.
Coach: Steve McNamara

2017– Defeated finalists, Wins against Tier 1 Nations: 0
Team in last tournament appearance:
Widdop, McGillvary, Watkins, Bateman, Hall, Brown, Gale
Hill, Roby, Graham, Currie, Whitehead, S. Burgess
Walmsley, T. Burgess, Heighington, Lomax
Coach: Wayne Bennett



2021(2)
Team details – Semi Final Exit, Wins against Tier 1 Nations: 0
Team in last tournament appearance:
Tomkins, Young, Watkins, Farnworth, Makinson, Welsby, Williams
Burgess, McIlorum, Hill, Whitehead, Bateman, Radley
McMeeken, Knowles, Thompson, Cooper
Coach: Shaun Wane
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If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and yet depreciate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground. They want rain without thunder and lightning. They want the ocean without the awful roar of its many waters. This struggle may be a moral one; or it may be a physical one; or it may be both moral and physical; but it must be a struggle.

Frederick Douglas

Well, that hasn't cheered me up, I was just starting to get over Saturday.
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Would any England player get in the Aussie or Kiwi teams?

I don’t think so.

What about Samoa or Tonga,

I doubt that too.

Not a very helpful post, I know.

But I think it reflects the current situation.

English Rugby League is in a poor state in my view.

Problem is, no one wants to take responsibility.
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The issue here is that England built their self belief on playing nobody. Greece, France and a poor (at that time) Samoa. When finally they come up against a team of worth it just wasn't there.
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