RLFANS.COM
Celebrating
23 years service to
the Rugby League
Community!
WWW.RLFANS.COM • View topic - England Squad 2022 - Why are we falling further behind?

User avatarHopie wrote:
Hopie Member for 21 years
User avatar


Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2002 2:20 pm
Posts: 5374
Location: Aberdeen
I saw England beat Australia on TV at the Centenary world cup when I was still at school, but it was just another sport on BBC TV at the time. Little would I know that would be the only time I'd see England beat a Tier 1 team at a world cup in my lifetime.

Before the disastrous world cup in 2000 I was a Super League season ticket holder, and I've been to every world cup since, I've seen some horrible defeats and some painful exits, not many World cup high points involving England at all, but I really despair at the lack of quality England can call upon. In 200o we ran out of wingers, in 2017 we only had 1 centre. Players get older and slower but the replacements don't step up to the mark and displace them from the team. The same tried and failed players look good in the league and then get picked again and battered in full internationals.

Results in 2000 and 2008 were disastrous for different reasons, but in 2013 and 2017 I thought we had a genuine chance. We grew through the tournament in 2013 and actually put out a good team in a losing semi final. A huge upgrade on the coaching side made up for the reduced squad quality in 2017 but a favourable draw and creditable niling in the final isn't what I am after. I just want to see England win another big game before I give up, or the game I knew is gone for good.

2022 looks like another downgrade in terms of squad and a bigger one in terms of coaching staff. looks like we are falling down the rankings rather than looking to use home advantage to beat the best. Why is there such a lack of quality England players, particularly creative ones, and will we ever be able to turn the tide on this one?
“You are playing a game of football this afternoon but more than that you are playing for England, and more even than that, you are playing for right versus wrong. You will win because you have to win. Don’t forget that message from home. England expects every one of you to do his duty.”

User avatarHopie wrote:
Hopie Member for 21 years
User avatar


Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2002 2:20 pm
Posts: 5374
Location: Aberdeen
Past England Teams for Context:

2000– Semi Final Exit, Wins against Tier 1 Nations: 0
Team in last tournament appearance:
Radlinski, Walker, Naylor, Senior, Wellens, Deacon, Long
Fielden, Smith, Howard, Sculthorpe, Forshaw, Farrell
Peacock, Hay, Fleary, Anderson
Coach: John Kear

2008 – Semi Final Exit, Wins against Tier 1 Nations: 0
Team in last tournament appearance:
Wellens , Gardner, Gleeson, Senior, Calderwood, McGuire, Burrow
Graham, Roby, Peacock, Westwood, Ellis, Purdham
L Pryce, Morley, Higham, Wilkin
Coach: Tony Smith

2013 – Semi Final Exit, Wins against Tier 1 Nations: 0
Team in last tournament appearance:
Tomkins, Charnley, Watkins, Cudjoe, Hall, Widdop, Sinfield,
Graham, Roby, S. Burgess, Ferres, Westwood, O'Loughlin.
Burrow, G. Burgess, Hill, Ablett.
Coach: Steve McNamara

2017– Defeated finalists, Wins against Tier 1 Nations: 0
Team in last tournament appearance:
Widdop, McGillvary, Watkins, Bateman, Hall, Brown, Gale
Hill, Roby, Graham, Currie, Whitehead, S. Burgess
Walmsley, T. Burgess, Heighington, Lomax
Coach: Wayne Bennett


2022 England Squad:
The 30-men who were announced for that squad were:
John Bateman (Wigan Warriors), Daryl Clark (Warrington Wolves), Mike Cooper (Warrington Wolves), Ben Currie (Warrington Wolves), Thomas Davies (Catalans Dragons), Lewis Dodd (St Helens), Niall Evalds (Castleford Tigers), Liam Farrell (Wigan Warriors), Ryan Hall (Hull KR), Zak Hardaker (Wigan Warriors), Morgan Knowles (St Helens), Kruise Leeming (Leeds Rhinos), Matthew Lees (St Helens), Jonny Lomax (St Helens), Reece Lyne (Wakefield Trinity), Jermaine McGillvary (Huddersfield Giants), Paul McShane (Castleford Tigers), Tommy Makinson (St Helens), Liam Marshall (Wigan Warriors), Harry Newman (Leeds Rhinos), Mikolaj Oledzki (Leeds Rhinos), Kai Pearce-Paul (Wigan Warriors), Mark Percival (St Helens), Stefan Ratchford (Warrington Wolves), Dan Sarginson (Salford Red Devils), Sam Tomkins (Catalans Dragons), Alex Walmsley (St Helens), Jake Wardle (Huddersfield Giants), Jack Welsby (St Helens), George Williams (Warrington Wolves).
The final 24-man squad is set to be confirmed on Friday, September 30.

England Men's World Cup squad:

Sam Tomkins (Catalans Dragons) - Captain
Andy Ackers (Salford Red Devils)
Joe Batchelor (St Helens)
John Bateman (Wigan Warriors)
Tom Burgess (South Sydney Rabbitohs)
Mike Cooper (Wigan Warriors)
Herbie Farnworth (Brisbane Broncos)
Ryan Hall (Hull KR)
Chris Hill (Huddersfield Giants)
Morgan Knowles (St Helens)
Matty Lees (St Helens)
Tommy Makinson (St Helens)
Michael McIlorum (Catalans Dragons)
Mike McMeeken (Catalans Dragons)
Mikolaj Oledzki (Leeds Rhinos)
Kai Pearce-Paul (Wigan Warriors)
Victor Radley (Sydney Roosters)
Marc Sneyd (Salford Red Devils)
Luke Thompson (Canterbury Bulldogs)
Kallum Watkins (Salford Red Devils)
Jack Welsby (St Helens)
Elliott Whitehead (Canberra Raiders)
George Williams (Warrington Wolves)
Dom Young (Newcastle Knights)
Last edited by Hopie on Fri Sep 30, 2022 9:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
“You are playing a game of football this afternoon but more than that you are playing for England, and more even than that, you are playing for right versus wrong. You will win because you have to win. Don’t forget that message from home. England expects every one of you to do his duty.”

User avatarSaddened! wrote:
Saddened! Member for 19 years
Gold RLFANS Member
User avatar

No
Team
Selected


Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2003 3:52 pm
Posts: 28881
Location: Warrington
Hopie wrote:
Why is there such a lack of quality England players, particularly creative ones, and will we ever be able to turn the tide on this one?


There arguably isn't. We've seen some trash play for England/GB over the years. I can remember Paul Wellens playing on the wing for example.

There is a lot of talent around at the moment and arguably we're seeing more players heading for Australia than ever before which can't be a bad thing for the international team.

It's just a shame this year that there are so many injured. The likes of Welsby, Dodd, Lomax, Percival, Walmsley and Lees would be the backbone of the England team, but sadly only a couple of them are fit. I don't see a better combo out there in the halves than Lomax and Dodd, which is what England would have had if it were not for bad luck.

Irregs#16 wrote:
Irregs#16 Member for 16 years
Silver RLFANS Member



Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2006 10:14 am
Posts: 7608
So, the squad is out. Very surprised (but perhaps I shouldn't be) with the inclusion of McIllorum and frigging Mike Cooper

User avatarWillzay wrote:
Willzay Member for 13 years
Gold RLFANS Member
User avatar

No
Team
Selected


Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2010 2:58 pm
Posts: 11348
Wakefields fault probably.
Profit over Lives - The Tory way

User avatarSteve0 wrote:
Steve0 Member for 20 years
User avatar

No
Team
Selected


Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2003 6:33 pm
Posts: 939
Location: Leeds
Too many fixtures and the game is too fast now with the "6 agaaaaaiiiinnnnn" rule leading to more injuries.... IMG suggest cutting the season down to 22 games and having more internationals which could grow rugby leagues profile, attract more players to the game if international RL is more high profile and can pay more....narrow minded clubs chairmen reject IMG proposals as they want as many fixtures as possible from local teams that bring 100 away fans and buy pies to keep their club just viable from another year.... international games remain sporadic....players continue to get injured to due to too many games and game being too fast.... international team worsens....cycle repeats.
The Ghost of '99 Member for 17 years
Bronze RLFANS Member
User avatar


Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 4:45 pm
Posts: 3047
If you have any connection with Wigan you get a free pass into the squad. McIlorum and Cooper? FFS, we knew Wane would do this but it's so tiresome.
"Brian McDermott, with a wry smile, nods when asked if he remembers a specific incident which made him realise he was a prick. 'I do', he murmurs."

User avatarSaddened! wrote:
Saddened! Member for 19 years
Gold RLFANS Member
User avatar

No
Team
Selected


Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2003 3:52 pm
Posts: 28881
Location: Warrington
England Men's World Cup squad:

Sam Tomkins (Catalans Dragons) - Quality, but past his best?
Andy Ackers (Salford Red Devils) - Deserves it after a great season
Joe Batchelor (St Helens) - Automatic starter, best 2nd row in SL by a mile
John Bateman (Wigan Warriors) - Very lucky, just Wigan connections keeping him in now
Tom Burgess (South Sydney Rabbitohs) - Deserved
Mike Cooper (Wigan Warriors) - Shocking selection. Mr Average, does not deserve his place, Wigan connections again
Herbie Farnworth (Brisbane Broncos) - Deserved
Ryan Hall (Hull KR) - Living on past glories. Not good enough, but hopefully won't play anyway
Chris Hill (Huddersfield Giants) - Another very lucky to get in, undeserved
Morgan Knowles (St Helens) - Automatic pick at 13
Matty Lees (St Helens) - Automatic pick a prop
Tommy Makinson (St Helens) - Automatic pick on wing
Michael McIlorum (Catalans Dragons) - Again, Wigan connections? What on earth is this selection about?
Mike McMeeken (Catalans Dragons) - Deserved
Mikolaj Oledzki (Leeds Rhinos) - One for the future, nowhere near the level required yet but getting there
Kai Pearce-Paul (Wigan Warriors) - Wigan connections. Wigan connections. Wigan connections. Done absolutely nothing all season.
Victor Radley (Sydney Roosters) - Deserved
Marc Sneyd (Salford Red Devils) - Que?
Luke Thompson (Canterbury Bulldogs) - Automatic pick at prop
Kallum Watkins (Salford Red Devils) - Quality player, deserves his place
Jack Welsby (St Helens) - Automatic pick at fullback, but common sense will see him play 6 instead given Lomax is unavailable
Elliott Whitehead (Canberra Raiders) - Automatic pick at second row
George Williams (Warrington Wolves) - What? Wigan connections? Awful player, awful season, completely undeserving.
Dom Young (Newcastle Knights) - Good pick, proving himself in the NRL

My thoughts there. Bolded ones are very lucky to be there. The fact they're still in the 'Wigun lads barbie-cue' Whatsapp group getting most of them in there.

User avatarSteve0 wrote:
Steve0 Member for 20 years
User avatar

No
Team
Selected


Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2003 6:33 pm
Posts: 939
Location: Leeds
Mcillorums temperament is a worry, if he gets sinbinned or sent off in a big game, it could cost us big time
The Ghost of '99 Member for 17 years
Bronze RLFANS Member
User avatar


Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 4:45 pm
Posts: 3047
Do we think if Hardaker hadn't walked out on Wigan he would have got a spot? He's been very, very good in a variety of backline positions for Leeds in the run-in.

But taking that approach to Wigan was always going to be fatal to his chances of getting into a Wane squad.
"Brian McDermott, with a wry smile, nods when asked if he remembers a specific incident which made him realise he was a prick. 'I do', he murmurs."
Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: SteveH and 148 guests

REPLY

Subject: 
Message:
   
Please note using apple style emoji's can result in posting failures.
Use the FULL EDITOR to better format content or upload images, be notified of replies etc...

Return to The Virtual Terrace


RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
5m
Wane out
Sadfish
74
6m
Squad and Team 2023
Armavinit
8
19m
Shares for sale in Trinity
Slugger McBa
43
21m
Squad numbers
WakiWaki
25
36m
Game - Song Titles 20212
Boss Hog
17907
48m
BORED The Band Name Game
Boss Hog
35236
51m
Dragons Ladies Team 2022/2023
Jimmythecuck
1
56m
French domestic league season 2022/2023 thread
Jimmythecuck
25
56m
2023 Squad Numbers
Once were Lo
21
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
1m
Home kit23
apollosghost
19
1m
BORED The Band Name Game
Boss Hog
35236
1m
2023 Squad Numbers
Once were Lo
21
2m
Riley Dean
ninearches
24
2m
NEW DEAL Cameron Smith - Expires 2026
Emagdnim13
11
3m
Pre season
mwindass
124
3m
Wardle and King
nathan_rugby
8
3m
Renouf Atoni
PopTart
104
5m
Proctor
TrinTrin
1
6m
2023 Kits
SouthStandRe
110
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
Dragons Ladies Team 2022/2023
Jimmythecuck
1
TODAY
Squad and Team 2023
Armavinit
8
TODAY
Proctor
TrinTrin
1
TODAY
Shares for sale in Trinity
Slugger McBa
43
TODAY
Wardle and King
nathan_rugby
8
TODAY
Squad numbers
WakiWaki
25
TODAY
NEW DEAL Cameron Smith - Expires 2026
Emagdnim13
11
TODAY
Faz and Giz
Dai Jones
7
TODAY
anyone work in banking advice needed
Maccbull_Big
2
TODAY
JD in the Bye round
musson
24
NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS
Australia World Champions Agai..
5922
Jillaroos Demolish the Ferns t..
1837
England Beat France in Nail-bi..
2791
New Zealand Ferns Final Bound ..
1677
Australia Power Into Womens Fi..
1802
Samoa Into the Final As Englis..
1876
Australia Squeeze Into The Fin..
4603
Jilleroos Scrape Home Against ..
2123
Cook Islands Sign Off With Vic..
2709
England 19-man squad for RLWC ..
2611
St Helens to face Penrith Pant..
2541
England Top Group A With Big W..
2267
Canada End World Cup With Tigh..
2058
Record Breaking Masterclass fr..
3282
Ferns Win As Cooks Score First..
2591
POSTSONLINEMEMBERSRECORD
19.4Million 1,974 ↑1679,3159,323
LOGIN HERE
or REGISTER for more features!.

When you register you get access to the live match scores, live match chat and you can post in the discussions on the forums.
RLFANS Match Centre
 Thu 16th Feb 2023
     Mens Super League XXVIII-R1
20:00
Warrington
v
Leeds
 Fri 17th Feb 2023
     Mens Super League XXVIII-R1
19:30
Wakefield
v
Catalans
20:00
Leigh
v
Salford
 Sat 18th Feb 2023
     World Club Championship 2023-R1
07:00
Penrith
v
St.Helens
     Mens Super League XXVIII-R1
13:00
Hull KR
v
Wigan
 Sun 19th Feb 2023
     Mens Super League XXVIII-R1
15:00
Hull FC
v
Castleford
 Thu 23rd Feb 2023
     Mens Super League XXVIII-R2
20:00
Salford
v
Hull KR
 Fri 24th Feb 2023
     Mens Super League XXVIII-R2
19:45
Huddersfield
v
Warrington
20:00
Leeds
v
Hull FC
20:00
Wigan
v
Wakefield
 Sat 25th Feb 2023
     Mens Super League XXVIII-R2
18:00
Catalans
v
Leigh
 Sun 26th Feb 2023
     Mens Super League XXVIII-R2
13:00
Castleford
v
St.Helens
 Thu 2nd Mar 2023
     Mens Super League XXVIII-R3
20:00
Warrington
v
Salford
 Fri 3rd Mar 2023
     Mens Super League XXVIII-R3
19:00
Catalans
v
Hull FC
19:45
Wakefield
v
Huddersfield
ALL SCORES PROVIDED BY RLFANS.COM (SETTINGS)
Matches on TV
Thu 16th Feb
SL-M
20:00
Warrington-Leeds
Fri 17th Feb
SL-M
20:00
Leigh-Salford
Sat 18th Feb
SL-M
13:00
Hull KR-Wigan
WCC2023
07:00
Penrith-St.Helens
Thu 23rd Feb
SL-M
20:00
Salford-Hull KR
Fri 24th Feb
SL-M
20:00
Leeds-Hull FC
Sun 26th Feb
SL-M
13:00
Castleford-St.Helens
Thu 2nd Mar
SL-M
20:00
Warrington-Salford
Fri 3rd Mar
SL-M
20:00
St.Helens-Leeds
Thu 9th Mar
SL-M
20:00
Wigan-Catalans
Fri 10th Mar
SL-M
20:00
Huddersfield-Castleford
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Mens Betfred Super League XXVIII ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Hull KR 0 0 0 0 0
Warrington 0 0 0 0 0
Salford 0 0 0 0 0
Wigan 0 0 0 0 0
Hull FC 0 0 0 0 0
Catalans 0 0 0 0 0
 
Huddersfield 0 0 0 0 0
Leigh 0 0 0 0 0
St.Helens 0 0 0 0 0
Castleford 0 0 0 0 0
Wakefield 0 0 0 0 0
Leeds 0 0 0 0 0
RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
5m
Wane out
Sadfish
74
6m
Squad and Team 2023
Armavinit
8
19m
Shares for sale in Trinity
Slugger McBa
43
21m
Squad numbers
WakiWaki
25
36m
Game - Song Titles 20212
Boss Hog
17907
48m
BORED The Band Name Game
Boss Hog
35236
51m
Dragons Ladies Team 2022/2023
Jimmythecuck
1
56m
French domestic league season 2022/2023 thread
Jimmythecuck
25
56m
2023 Squad Numbers
Once were Lo
21
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
1m
Home kit23
apollosghost
19
1m
BORED The Band Name Game
Boss Hog
35236
1m
2023 Squad Numbers
Once were Lo
21
2m
Riley Dean
ninearches
24
2m
NEW DEAL Cameron Smith - Expires 2026
Emagdnim13
11
3m
Pre season
mwindass
124
3m
Wardle and King
nathan_rugby
8
3m
Renouf Atoni
PopTart
104
5m
Proctor
TrinTrin
1
6m
2023 Kits
SouthStandRe
110
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
Dragons Ladies Team 2022/2023
Jimmythecuck
1
TODAY
Squad and Team 2023
Armavinit
8
TODAY
Proctor
TrinTrin
1
TODAY
Shares for sale in Trinity
Slugger McBa
43
TODAY
Wardle and King
nathan_rugby
8
TODAY
Squad numbers
WakiWaki
25
TODAY
NEW DEAL Cameron Smith - Expires 2026
Emagdnim13
11
TODAY
Faz and Giz
Dai Jones
7
TODAY
anyone work in banking advice needed
Maccbull_Big
2
TODAY
JD in the Bye round
musson
24
NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS
Australia World Champions Agai..
5922
Jillaroos Demolish the Ferns t..
1837
England Beat France in Nail-bi..
2791
New Zealand Ferns Final Bound ..
1677
Australia Power Into Womens Fi..
1802
Samoa Into the Final As Englis..
1876
Australia Squeeze Into The Fin..
4603
Jilleroos Scrape Home Against ..
2123
Cook Islands Sign Off With Vic..
2709
England 19-man squad for RLWC ..
2611
St Helens to face Penrith Pant..
2541
England Top Group A With Big W..
2267
Canada End World Cup With Tigh..
2058
Record Breaking Masterclass fr..
3282
Ferns Win As Cooks Score First..
2591


Visit the RLFANS.COM SHOP
for more merchandise!