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Problem players : Mon Jun 17, 2024 9:07 am  
I know a lot of weeks we talk about our weak pack etc. and players not being good enough. Which players do we deem not good enough?

As it stands, other than Handley, Croft and Ackers, I am not sure which players I would be overly concerned about losing.

I think in the backs clearly Frawley and Fusitua should go. There are question marks over Momorovski and Miller and Newman is not playing anywhere close to his potential.

I think forward wise, we need a clear out of small players i.e. Donaldson, Goudemand, Bentley and possibly, O'Connor. I would replace Sangare and agree with some that Lisone appears to be a flat track bully. Oledski, Holroyd and Smith then need to start upping their games.

A review of project / young players then needs to be looked at in terms of Roberts, Ruan, Johnson, Sinfield, TNW, Hudson and Warren.

Whats your current assessment of the playing group?
Re: Problem players : Mon Jun 17, 2024 9:36 am  
I think with a more simple game plan and an end to these pathetic shortcut trick plays were now renowned for that we wouldn't actually be a bad side.

Were trying to reinvent the wheel when we really just need to drop the gimmicks and get back to some simple, grind it out rugby league at least until we get our feet back under ourselves. Were trying desperately to adhere to a style that we cant possibly continue with and running ourselves ragged and up our own bootys trying to score off every play and its just not sustainable.
Re: Problem players : Mon Jun 17, 2024 9:38 am  
In the backs, no major complaints, but some concerns. Miller is worth persevering with IMO. I like Momirovski but he would benefit from a longer-run. He's obviously not a blockbusting Senior style centre but I think he could be a good winger's centre given time and more opportunities. Handley is probably one of the first names on the team sheet.

It's surely time for Leeds to move Fusitua on. He's a welcome presence on the wing (and in the air) when fit, but his tendency to rush in field to put in a big hit has left us exposed too often, as illustrated against Hull. I was in favour of keeping him but after the injuries this season it is just too much - we can't waste a quota spot on someone with his record.

Newman is the big concern in the backs. He's a shadow of the player who was monstering Field and French and ripping the top clubs to shreds (when fit) last season. Is he carrying a knock, or is it something else? Since signing his new deal he has been substandard. He should be our Senior-style centre. I'd forgive his selfishness with the ball and bad attitude if he could get back to impacting games like he used to, now he's just anonymous.

Halves. Croft is great, as evidenced by the high number of try assists. We need to build a game around him a lot more. I'm not that bothered about Frawley - I think he's been solid, all the more so after being dropped. I suspect we'd see a lot more from both halves if the pack was more dominant.

As far as the forwards are concerned, they should be as nervous as Smith is about whether or not they will be retained. I think we're fine at hooker with a fit Ackers and O'Connor and Johnson. Johnson looks sharper when I've seen him recently and deserves a lot more game time IMO. As for the rest:

Oledski - individually there's room for improvement, but he would really benefit from a 30 something senior pack leader alongside him.
Holroyd - still young, but despite some promising shows early last season I don't think he's ready to be a first choice starting prop, and needs to build time coming off the bench.
Lisone - not a good value signing IMO. Doesn't spend long enough on the field, and his discipline is atrocious for a senior forward. Hopefully we can replace.
Sangare - a promising signing because of his size and age, but he needs to improve in terms of impact and go-forward to justify a new contract IMO.
Goudemand - solid enough but what does he add that the other backrow types can't already do? A weak signing IMO.
Bentley - has been missed for his defence and gritty attitude.
Martin - our best forward, but we might have to sacrifice him to bring in a pack leader from the NRL.
Gannon - also badly missed but I wouldn't want him to come back in until the current malaise has been addressed.
McDonnell - He's become a shadow of the player we saw last season. Probably needs a rest but his deficiencies have been exposed this season (lack of size / pace). We need better players than this to be in the first 13. Ultimately he's a younger version of Donaldson and should be used in a similar way from the interchange bench (not covering the front row though!)
Cam Smith - As big a concern as Newman, IMO. He's too small to be an international class 13 and too slow to get near the halves. Maybe taking him out of the firing line as captain would help his form? Give Croft or Martin (if he stays) the captaincy.
Re: Problem players : Mon Jun 17, 2024 10:51 am  
Exeter Rhino wrote:
In the backs, no major complaints, but some concerns. Miller is worth persevering with IMO. I like Momirovski but he would benefit from a longer-run. He's obviously not a blockbusting Senior style centre but I think he could be a good winger's centre given time and more opportunities. Handley is probably one of the first names on the team sheet.

It's surely time for Leeds to move Fusitua on. He's a welcome presence on the wing (and in the air) when fit, but his tendency to rush in field to put in a big hit has left us exposed too often, as illustrated against Hull. I was in favour of keeping him but after the injuries this season it is just too much - we can't waste a quota spot on someone with his record.

Newman is the big concern in the backs. He's a shadow of the player who was monstering Field and French and ripping the top clubs to shreds (when fit) last season. Is he carrying a knock, or is it something else? Since signing his new deal he has been substandard. He should be our Senior-style centre. I'd forgive his selfishness with the ball and bad attitude if he could get back to impacting games like he used to, now he's just anonymous.

Halves. Croft is great, as evidenced by the high number of try assists. We need to build a game around him a lot more. I'm not that bothered about Frawley - I think he's been solid, all the more so after being dropped. I suspect we'd see a lot more from both halves if the pack was more dominant.

As far as the forwards are concerned, they should be as nervous as Smith is about whether or not they will be retained. I think we're fine at hooker with a fit Ackers and O'Connor and Johnson. Johnson looks sharper when I've seen him recently and deserves a lot more game time IMO. As for the rest:

Oledski - individually there's room for improvement, but he would really benefit from a 30 something senior pack leader alongside him.
Holroyd - still young, but despite some promising shows early last season I don't think he's ready to be a first choice starting prop, and needs to build time coming off the bench.
Lisone - not a good value signing IMO. Doesn't spend long enough on the field, and his discipline is atrocious for a senior forward. Hopefully we can replace.
Sangare - a promising signing because of his size and age, but he needs to improve in terms of impact and go-forward to justify a new contract IMO.
Goudemand - solid enough but what does he add that the other backrow types can't already do? A weak signing IMO.
Bentley - has been missed for his defence and gritty attitude.
Martin - our best forward, but we might have to sacrifice him to bring in a pack leader from the NRL.
Gannon - also badly missed but I wouldn't want him to come back in until the current malaise has been addressed.
McDonnell - He's become a shadow of the player we saw last season. Probably needs a rest but his deficiencies have been exposed this season (lack of size / pace). We need better players than this to be in the first 13. Ultimately he's a younger version of Donaldson and should be used in a similar way from the interchange bench (not covering the front row though!)
Cam Smith - As big a concern as Newman, IMO. He's too small to be an international class 13 and too slow to get near the halves. Maybe taking him out of the firing line as captain would help his form? Give Croft or Martin (if he stays) the captaincy.


Agree with most of this and Ex-Swarcliffe Rhinos. To be honest, until we get a coach enabling players to play to their best, it is hard to judge players like Newman, Miller, Frawley, Oledzki. Under someone like Rowley, a lot of them could be much different players.

I think players like Donaldson, Goudemand, O'Connor, Lisone and Sangare will look the same whoever coaches them.
Re: Problem players : Mon Jun 17, 2024 11:33 am  
The quality isn't there - and until we can attract better players especially in the forwards these struggles will continue. Add to the lack of playing quality with an even worse coaching set up and we have what we see each week. No quality, no fluency, no ideas and no structure. You can't make donkey's into thoroughbreds.
Re: Problem players : Mon Jun 17, 2024 1:18 pm  
Zoo Zoo Boom wrote:
The quality isn't there - and until we can attract better players especially in the forwards these struggles will continue. Add to the lack of playing quality with an even worse coaching set up and we have what we see each week. No quality, no fluency, no ideas and no structure. You can't make donkey's into thoroughbreds.


Who would you retain?
Re: Problem players : Mon Jun 17, 2024 2:41 pm  
rugbyleague88 wrote:
Who would you retain?


HANDLEY
CROFT
ACKERS
OCONNER
OLEDSKI
MARTIN
BENTLEY
SINFIELD
MCDONELL
SMITH
WATTON
EDGELL
SIMPSON
Re: Problem players : Mon Jun 17, 2024 2:47 pm  
ploinerrhino wrote:
HANDLEY
CROFT
ACKERS
OCONNER
OLEDSKI
MARTIN
BENTLEY
SINFIELD
MCDONELL
SMITH
WATTON
EDGELL
SIMPSON


That would mean getting rid of about 15 players from the squad?

It’s not viable and would set us back further
Re: Problem players : Mon Jun 17, 2024 3:21 pm  
rugbyleague88 wrote:
Who would you retain?


Handley
Newman but with a big boot up his backside
Edgell
Mik - another who needs to improve
Bentley
Johnson
O'Connor
Croft
Akers
Martin
Smith - but not as a ball playing 13
Holroyd - but needs to improve his fitness/stamina/explosiveness
3/4 youngsters TNW, Ruan, Simpson, Lumb
Re: Problem players : Tue Jun 18, 2024 9:56 am  
This isn't our problem players but we seem to have a problem with concussion with our players. Got an injury report from the Hull game and apparently we could be without Harry Newman, Ash Handley, Tom Holroyd & Sam Lisone for this week's game against Leigh, we'll see when tomorrow's 21 man squad is named.

Apparently all 4 players showed concussion symptoms after the game and will be stood down this week, it feels like Leeds as a club have a real strict procedure when it comes to concussion/ HIA this is probably due to the Stevie Ward saga and end of the day the players health comes first and the club will be extra precautious now. I'd imagine Tom Holroyd will probably miss majority of this season now due to his concussion reports this year wouldn't be surprised if he gets same treatment as Morgan Gannon and stood down til next season.

We do seem to have a stricter policy with head injuries compared to other clubs.

Newman
Handley
Ackers
Holroyd
Bentley
Lisone
Gannon

All out with HIA protocol all at the same time seems extreme but players welfare comes first.

To add insult to the injuries Leon Ruan is also injured got a hip injury playing in reserves at the weekend.
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