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Re: York Home the playoffs : Sat Sep 17, 2022 5:22 pm  
the fax in asia wrote:
Hudd-Shay, I only see the view from Fax tv and the one camera angle so have to rely on that, it does seem referees in the main are whimsical about play the ball, does not matter which level of rugby you watch, players do get lazy, not playing with the foot but lifting the leg and pushing the ball through, opposing players do always try to slow the game down by laying on or turning the man on his back, agree needs more consistency,. Saying that the players know what certain refs are like and should be able to adapt accordingly.

Consistency is definitely the word. Yes, the coaches job is partly to examine the ref's and train the players accordingly. Up The Fax! :thumb:
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Re: York Home the playoffs : Sun Sep 18, 2022 8:06 am  
faxcar wrote:
But it’s not an aside and that 20 or 30 second period of the game is blatantly contentious.

Please follow your own advice and watch it again as a whole in the correct order instead of one small part of it out of sequence because the first offence was Widnes being yards offside at the scrum leading up to the play, the second offence was Craven being offside at the play the ball, both are penalty offences which happened before the ptb but weren’t given.

1 out of 3 in the wrong order can’t be the right decisions or end up with the right outcome and it’s the ref who was flat out wrong.

.

Ok I watched it again. I agree that Widnes were offside at the scrum, but that's on the touch judge, not the ref. Craven wasn't offside at the PTB and I'm not sure what you are seeing there, he clearly has his foot behind the line.

But all that is kind of missing the point, it's the relentless bagging of referees that I struggle with. The modern game is really hard to officiate because coaching methods have made the ruck/play-the-ball area so competitive and messy. For instance defenders are coached to keep their hands on the ball as long as possible during the tackle and that means that refs are faced with a tricky decision over and over as to whether they have delayed the PTB or not. Once the ref has shouted held, how long is the defender allowed to keep his hand on the ball or on the tackled player before the ref penalises him - 0.2 seconds, 0.4 seconds, 0.6 seconds etc? It's going to be a judgement call every time. that's why you end up with comments on every team's forum such as the one earlier on this thread saying "we never seem to get the 50-50 calls", because there are probably about 20 or 30 of these in every game and fans remember the ones that went against them.
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Re: York Home the playoffs : Sun Sep 18, 2022 8:21 am  
faxcar wrote:
Absolutely right about the basics but some refs seem to be keener on policing certain areas of the game and where Jack Smith is concerned offside is one of these, we get pinged more for being offside when he is in the middle than any other ref.
Against Widnes we got penalised at the ptb on several occasions for not playing it correctly and if we aren't doing so this leads to the pressure being unnecessarily put on ourselves instead of the opposition and giving penalties away when in possession is a coach killer and needs to be addressed.

On the other hand you can see identical ptb incidents that can go either way, one call will be penalty attack for interference another call will be penalty defence for incorrect play the ball.

The incident mentioned by Hudds is one example.
On the first play a yard from their line Arundel tries to play the ball and as he bends down to do so Craven and another push towards him rocking him slightly backwards which causes him to pause, steadies himself and before he gets chance to play it he gets penalise.

It’ seems there’s always one, earlier in the season it was any head contact and you were off which has now balanced out a bit,getting the ruck and ptb right still seems to be alluding the officials and remains as this seasons inconsistent annoying rule of the year.

Arundel..that's the one I was thinking of.
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Re: York Home the playoffs : Sun Sep 18, 2022 10:40 am  
The Phantom Horseman wrote:
Ok I watched it again. I agree that Widnes were offside at the scrum, but that's on the touch judge, not the ref. Craven wasn't offside at the PTB and I'm not sure what you are seeing there, he clearly has his foot behind the line.

But all that is kind of missing the point, it's the relentless bagging of referees that I struggle with. The modern game is really hard to officiate because coaching methods have made the ruck/play-the-ball area so competitive and messy. For instance defenders are coached to keep their hands on the ball as long as possible during the tackle and that means that refs are faced with a tricky decision over and over as to whether they have delayed the PTB or not. Once the ref has shouted held, how long is the defender allowed to keep his hand on the ball or on the tackled player before the ref penalises him - 0.2 seconds, 0.4 seconds, 0.6 seconds etc? It's going to be a judgement call every time. that's why you end up with comments on every team's forum such as the one earlier on this thread saying "we never seem to get the 50-50 calls", because there are probably about 20 or 30 of these in every game and fans remember the ones that went against them.

So when the defensive line moves yards offside before the ball clears the scrum your saying the ref can’t see it and can’t make the call, sorry I disagree and your 100% wrong about Craven, watch it again his right foot is always in front of the line, he’s offside and in the reference to decisions I never mentioned 50/50 calls all go against Fax.

Anyway and moving on.

Actually in case you missed it, the point I was making was very simple which clearly pointed out that “our” in house discipline would have to be in order for the York game as per the thread.
Namely if “we” stray even slightly offside and having given a number of penalties away when in possession last time out “we” would also have to be squeaky clean at the ptb or we would be heavily penalised again if “we” were not doing it right, it was all about us, how can that be classed as “relentless bagging of referees”?

On the bigger picture the ptb remains one of the main areas of the game where penalty calls in identical situations can go either way it’s just a fact.

The point here is, because of all the messing around clearly beyond 10th’s of a second, when watching live without the use of post game microscopic analysis and multiple replays to show whether it was the correct call or not (as per your Lockwood / Wood example) causes more frustration than almost anything else at almost every game (as it did at Featherstone that day) and consequently needs looking at.
You will never have perfection but after all it is a live sport which in that setting shouldn’t have these anomalies.

With that in mind rather than “bagging” the ref, the clubs, through disruptive ruck / ptb coaching and as a result producing these so called “smarter players” you mentioned were highlighted as part of the problem.

Trying to be proactive and positive a solution was proposed and an example of how it is currently working to a much higher standard in the NRL was provided as a model to follow.

Will it happen, very unlikely, why and this is the part I struggle with, the constant defensive denial approach and it’s all “bagging the ref” claim when’s there clearly are issues just fails to see the problem and fails to see the need for change.
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Re: York Home the playoffs : Sun Sep 18, 2022 4:31 pm  
faxcar wrote:
your 100% wrong about Craven, watch it again his right foot is always in front of the line, he’s offside

.

Respectfully, I don't think you know the rules, do you? Craven is the marker. He doesn't have to be behind the line. If the play the ball is 12 inches from the line, as it was, and his foot is six inches from the line, he's onside. In any case, his left foot was behind the line (and his right foot in front of it) and my understanding is that would be classed as being behind the line even if he weren't the marker.
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From Hell,Hull and Halifax may the Good Lord deliver us.

Re: York Home the playoffs : Sun Sep 18, 2022 6:07 pm  
W t f come on fax
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Re: York Home the playoffs : Sun Sep 18, 2022 6:22 pm  
Cannot believe what I have just listened too. F+-k
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Re: York Home the playoffs : Sun Sep 18, 2022 6:26 pm  
:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: York Home the playoffs : Sun Sep 18, 2022 6:39 pm  
That hurt massively but York turned up and we didn’t .
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Re: York Home the playoffs : Sun Sep 18, 2022 7:02 pm  
Oh well. York played the better game we a bit out of sorts I our attack and defence. Two massive gaping holes let York in for 2 trys. It has been a good season for us although get less fundings for losing tonight. Our lads and coaching staff and all concerned in running the club should be proud of what we have achieved this year
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