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::Off-topic discussion.
Re: no free meals for the poorest kids ? : Mon Oct 26, 2020 9:15 am  
Mild Rover wrote:
There are a lot of elements that are crucial to the success of any operation, commercial or surgical. If nobody had taught you to read or the basics of mathematics you would have found it much more difficult to be successful in business. If the theatre isn’t cleaned properly then the patient is at greater risk no matter how good the surgeon is. Nobody is a island, we’re all interdependent. All the roles in a healthy society are of value but nearly all of us are individually fungible.

One of the distasteful positions among Remainers is the anti-democratic ‘it was the stupid, ill-educated demographic that won the Brexit referendum’ argument (if you can even call it that). Are you saying that the views of an elite, however defined, should be given more weight than the populace as a whole?

Your point on status is interesting. You think risk management is one of the very top considerations in assessing value, likely reflecting your own experience and self-image. However, that wouldn’t apply in a lot of professional environments - to a degree that is unfair in all honesty. That’s the thing with job-snobbery, it is stupid and unfair and, most of all, it doesn’t translate. I’ve been with oncologists who referred to surgeons as ‘meat technicians’, half jokingly, but only half. When people think they form a crucial link in the chain they are absolutely right. When people think they form the crucial link they are very wrong imo, and they’ll be laughed at by others who, ironically, have the same misconception about themselves.


My experience is purely in the private sector and in that world the person who earns the most money is the person who makes the crucial decisions i.e. takes the most risk has the most responsibility. In my organisation the buck stops with me - I have delegated much of the decision-making to the directors - hate micro management - and them down to their teams but each rung has a level at which they can make decisions without referring upwards e.g. if the profile of a potential new client is outside of the agreed parameters then it goes from sales to commercial - if it falls within the agreed criteria no need to refer.

Your idea that theatre cleaner is as important as a surgeon is an interesting one - you can have the cleanest operating theatre in the world but without the surgeon no need to clean it. So who is really the most important person in that scenario?
Re: no free meals for the poorest kids ? : Mon Oct 26, 2020 9:02 pm  
Sal Paradise wrote:
Your idea that theatre cleaner is as important as a surgeon is an interesting one - you can have the cleanest operating theatre in the world but without the surgeon no need to clean it. So who is really the most important person in that scenario?


Perhaps it is more a collaboration than a contest. What about the anaesthetist? What about the people who make the surgical instruments? Without a scalpel, the surgeon is not much use. Maybe we all need each other to be successful, and we should respect and look out for one another. Underneath the money and possessions and the titles and the labels and and petty hierarchies, there is who and what we really are.
Re: no free meals for the poorest kids ? : Mon Oct 26, 2020 10:11 pm  
They're called free SCHOOL meals, no?
Re: no free meals for the poorest kids ? : Tue Oct 27, 2020 11:33 am  
Mild Rover wrote:
Perhaps it is more a collaboration than a contest. What about the anaesthetist? What about the people who make the surgical instruments? Without a scalpel, the surgeon is not much use. Maybe we all need each other to be successful, and we should respect and look out for one another. Underneath the money and possessions and the titles and the labels and and petty hierarchies, there is who and what we really are.


Of course but there will always be a meritocracy - without why would anyone aspire and work towards improving their situation and status. Some people are very driven and have the combination of intellect and work ethic and these people generally make the world a better place for all us.

We come back to the point you can knock somebody out and produce as many scalpels as you you like but without the skill of the surgeon nothing happens and the patient dies. There will always be those at the top of the pyramid through their own efforts and talent - its the reason Socialism doesn't work you cannot constrain the talent, its influence and its rewards.
Re: no free meals for the poorest kids ? : Tue Oct 27, 2020 12:47 pm  
Sal Paradise wrote:
Of course but there will always be a meritocracy - without why would anyone aspire and work towards improving their situation and status. Some people are very driven and have the combination of intellect and work ethic and these people generally make the world a better place for all us.

We come back to the point you can knock somebody out and produce as many scalpels as you you like but without the skill of the surgeon nothing happens and the patient dies. There will always be those at the top of the pyramid through their own efforts and talent - its the reason Socialism doesn't work you cannot constrain the talent, its influence and its rewards.


Okay, but you get that there are multiple pyramids and status is context specific?

You know that the term meritocracy was coined to describe a dystopian society in a satirical essay?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rise_ ... eritocracy
Sal Paradise wrote:
Of course but there will always be a meritocracy - without why would anyone aspire and work towards improving their situation and status. Some people are very driven and have the combination of intellect and work ethic and these people generally make the world a better place for all us.

We come back to the point you can knock somebody out and produce as many scalpels as you you like but without the skill of the surgeon nothing happens and the patient dies. There will always be those at the top of the pyramid through their own efforts and talent - its the reason Socialism doesn't work you cannot constrain the talent, its influence and its rewards.


Okay, but you get that there are multiple pyramids and status is context specific?

You know that the term meritocracy was coined to describe a dystopian society in a satirical essay?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rise_ ... eritocracy
Re: no free meals for the poorest kids ? : Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:30 pm  
Sal can’t understand why millions of kids go hungry whilst his kids eat caviar for breakfast.
Re: no free meals for the poorest kids ? : Thu Oct 29, 2020 12:51 pm  
Steph Curry wrote:
Sal can’t understand why millions of kids go hungry whilst his kids eat caviar for breakfast.


There are plenty of people on minimum wage that manage to feed their families without the need for further state help - so it is possible - would you not agree?

My kids have long flown the nest - surprisingly they don't seem to have a problem feeding themselves and their children - must have been all that Caviar that gave them a desire to work hard and correctly prioritise their finances.

What's next JD sports vouchers?
Re: no free meals for the poorest kids ? : Thu Oct 29, 2020 10:48 pm  
Sal Paradise wrote:
There are plenty of people on minimum wage that manage to feed their families without the need for further state help - so it is possible - would you not agree?

My kids have long flown the nest - surprisingly they don't seem to have a problem feeding themselves and their children - must have been all that Caviar that gave them a desire to work hard and correctly prioritise their finances.

What's next JD sports vouchers?


So all these working families that managed to feed their kids pre covid who have now lost their jobs or had pay cuts and now are struggling, what advice would you give them?

Let me guess

“Lols should have budgeted better you pauper, now excuse me whilst I crack open another lobster shell”
Re: no free meals for the poorest kids ? : Fri Oct 30, 2020 11:04 am  
Steph Curry wrote:
So all these working families that managed to feed their kids pre covid who have now lost their jobs or had pay cuts and now are struggling, what advice would you give them?

Let me guess

“Lols should have budgeted better you pauper, now excuse me whilst I crack open another lobster shell”


So take advantage of Universal Credit for a start - in a lot of cases they will be better off!!
Re: no free meals for the poorest kids ? : Fri Oct 30, 2020 11:06 am  
Sal Paradise wrote:
So take advantage of Universal Credit for a start - in a lot of cases they will be better off!!

and cancel Sky, stop smoking, live to your means.

not rocket science
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